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Creeped out by coldness - Anyone else feels the same?

Discussion in 'General Entropia Universe Discussion' started by Pirx Danford, Aug 7, 2014.

  1. Cheers,
    so there were a few minor details before the huge Cry Engine VU, which provided a hint of the ongoing activity around us, giving the universe a vibrant feeling.
    The lack of such details is actually creeping me out and basically what leads to me not logging in for weeks sometimes, because I cannot stomach playing within such a cold unresponsive environment.

    I really miss that I could tell from far away if someone was mining and even telling the difference between bombs and probes was fun.
    The shaking of the screen when mining.
    The babbling of the people, sitting down and lying around.
    The distinct noises the creatures made, offering a sound background in which one could easily tell which mobs were hunted around oneself and with what types of weapons.

    Such details made the universe seem lively.

    Now when I meet other avatars the blank faces give me the creeps. In fact now I prefer using the chat feature over virtually meeting someone face to face and this was exactly the other way around pre Cry Engine. I dragged people to places I enjoyed idling about and I believe that provided a good time and deeper connection between our virtual personas.
    I even enjoyed attending virtual parties and meeting new people... the few tries to do that post Cry Engine were more than unpleasant.

    What I wonder is if I am the only one feeling this way?
    • Agree Agree x 4
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  2. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    Hmmm.... I'm not sure... I think I understand the feeling but not sure I've had it... I've certainly had days where I feel people don't say hello as much as they used to when you meet them... but in some ways that makes the ones that do even more special. I'm not even going to put that down to MA though, I feel it may simply be something to do with games/MMO's people today. I have to remember that when I started playing it WAS over a decade ago. We didn't have the wealth of games/MMO's we have seen since and people were less eperienced in them. A lot has changed in 10 years.

    That said the vibration was good. No need to kill it just tone it down maybe if it was annoying for some. I liked that we had the different sounds for different mining though. I can still hear different mobs and know what is there. I can still hear different weapons and often I go check out the gun if I hear something new.

    I miss sitting and lying down tons and I thing the blurblurblur blur! Blur blur?! chat was fun. I miss facial expressions too even though they were not that good, one or two worked for my avatar (just basically had to avoid the creepy smile). Emotes with no facial expressions are just wrong/creepy. Very uncanny valley. I don't like them so I sorta avoid them. Yes I wish MA would fix all the old animations. Maybe I should make a support case for that one...

    That said there are things that are better. Like the moving hair and the idle animations even though some are broken. They add a lot for something so simple.

    I like the chat and offline messaging too and having message logs for how much stuff sold for on auction. I like the group chats like the rig defence and rookie channel. I don't feel alone in a dead society anymore cause I always have those channels to talk to people in. Of course I accept that there are down sides to that... it would mean there is less "point" to socs since they didn't upgrade soc functionality in any way shape or form yet and as far as I know, there are no plans to. It does kinda confuse me how there are not more freelancers running about to be true...
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. Hi,

    Yes the lifelessness of many games is a bit of a worry, especially those with later engines without work put into such features. Never the less the technology is being played with in various games. One of the later ones I am involved with in contribution towards ideas in the development process for is Everquest Next via Landmark.

    Anyway here is the technology that is being refined for EQ Next and Landmark:

    SOE Emote is the original release, currently in use now in Everquest 2:

    And I will try and find something that is relatively short to demonstrate how it will be used in
    EQ Next & Landmark.

    Ok here is a small demo:
    Longer demo of EQ Next here and some of the new technologies being used / Landmark here.

    So I do agree, it is also "part and parcel" of the points I raised in another thread (see the Elder Scrolls video) with reference to belief in the environment which your particapting through such things that cater in allowing for immersion to occur.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    Wow! That stuff in EQ2 looks really cool. Almost tempted to DL and have a play since apparently it is free. Strangely not so keen on the EQnext look. Reminds me of recent disney films!

    Still, as cool as that is I've often wondered if somehow there might be a problem in that I imagine 90% of the time we probably only pull a slack jawed vacant expression when playing games? This might not be so great for our avatar's appearance.

    That said, you could make sure the system is turn off able so the avatar returns to the usual neutral or even have it automatically detect when you are "pulling a face" or talking or something and turn on as and when needed.

    One minor issue is that as soon as this hasn't happened it will already stop working if people start using an occulus Rift ;) That is a way off yet though so I think the emote tech may have a chance to establish itself before we all start putting buckets over our heads ;)

  5. dalewj

    dalewj StoryTeller/Nerd/Gamer

    As for mining, which is my profession in gaming, yes completely. so much good was taken away with the feel of mining. In PE mining was knowledge and the feel of the work. On two of my towers I alerted my soc minutes before I was going to get them. I felt it in the game. you could feel the ground move, you could see the skill move you could hear the boom or hisssssss. Was SO much of the mining process.

    Then the choice between mineral and ore (Which I still love in Afterworld btw) left. Lets make it easier for the WoW kids to understand mining. sound? feeling? black spots on ground? all gone. now you mine while running (Or worse flying your airplane... that's a whole other issue). you don't feel or hear anything .. just wait for the finder to bleep you got a find.....

    The loss is terrible... so bad I left......
    • Agree Agree x 4
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  6. Hi Wistrel,

    Part of the reason for the comical animations is due to its fantasy based nature, the Everquest franchise has never and will never be intended for realism in avatar appearance. Also being an inhouse developed engine to cater specifically for next gen based voxel technologies, it is almost impossible even with today's high spec socket-2011 i7 rigs with ssd & 64Gb memory to cater for the such in voxel based environment.

    The voxel based environment impacts the performance due to its "in a state of constant flux/change" nature. Landmark & EQ Next will be native 64-bit applications built from the ground up using proper multithreading between cores and processors (for multi-cpu & multi-gpu configs) no 32-bit of yesteryear's technology. (Thankfully).

    If it were a static environment where things could be just animated, sure it would be possible.

    I do agree regarding the OR, I have one myself, the latest with updated higher screen resolution thanks to a "Want to see an OR fly incident" well it fell off the desk actually after being bumped hehe. Anyway it has a terribly long way to go. I still get headaches after 30+ mins use from it and only a few games really support it to any extent (The majority not natively). Nvidia 3D Vision on the other PC actually produces better results in terms of 3d gaming with a 120Hz monitor and high end series 700 card.

    THough your right, even though the concept is good, I do not like wearing a bucket on my head. I also tried out the new sony set too, that was a little more freaky again, but good concept.

    I do not think we will see much until such time they get the bucket down to thick heavy glasses size tbh.

    The other thing though I would like to see in gmes is what ArcheAge is starting to work more intensely on in development in their soon to be released sandbox. It is also fantasy so your not going to get realism as far as avatars go, but the look is there for those who want individuality (So many avatar customisation options it puts ESO to shame by a long shot). It is also Cry3Engine too.

    Never the less getting off-track, ArcheAge has developed quite a few well thought out dance routines and not the extremely weak dance & emote animated routines we see in Entropia.

    Here is an example, it pretty much pisses all over what League of Legends has as far as dancing goes being the only game that comes close (sort of) to the level of movement detail and number of moves available:

    Here is another one lol There is quite a few moves.

    More in the ArcheAge thread.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Some of the points raised here by Dalewj about environment impact and reaction is very important.
    To hard to describe in a show and tell, but games like Destiny & Orion - Dino Horde are awesome examples of how the use of items and its impact provides a sense of "being involved and there in the moment"

    Not sure if these will help, but I will try to get a timestamp for Destiny. Dino Horde is shown many times within the video. These are other very important things that need to come back in Entropia if its ever going to provide any level of immersion and sense of being there and belonging. (Even in terms of suspension of disbelief)

    You get environment reactions in both games all the way through ...
    One of the biggest examples in this video is at 15:00+

    And well Orion -Dino Horde you experience constant environment feedback adding to realism all through it. Its too hard to describe unless you play it, even a ship flying by has an effect on you, not just visuals.

    It is like Entropia has lost all of its "being-in-the-moment-&-suspention-of-disbelief-effects"
    ie. Immersion is almost nonexistent in Entropia Universe present day :sad1:

    All the points are raised in these videos here relating to the such (components that build a quality game) >
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Welcome to our club..."The grumpy old men" ;)

    I know exactly how you feel and what you are talking about. I write about it since 2009.
    But it didnt change anything. It even became worse.

    So, why Im still around, one may ask...
    • Hussked Hussked x 1
  9. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    You're not alone Pirx, and while I could write a book about it, I'll spare you, because everyone else is doing a great job at defining what's missing and the loss of the immersion and connectedness that was once felt.

    There's definitely a psychology to what MindArk is doing, but it's not the optimum use of the social-psychological perspective, and the degradation of the charm, charisma, unity and feeling a part of the overall spirit of what this unique universe had to offer in the past seems to have been abandoned.

    It also seems that efforts are now more for self-promoted interests, rather than building and expanding on an environment that is more cohesive with regard to game-play, and developing and elevating that sense of life and belonging with regard to the original colony of pioneers who worked together for a common cause.

    The sights, sounds and feeling of the elements of this unique universe have indeed gone cold. The almost catatonic state of avatar animations, along with a grinding or other well-known types of environments serve a purpose. However, EU is not like any other game, and the potential is absolutely huge to develop it into one of, if not THE most immersive game out there, but there doesn't seem to be any more interest in that.

    Totally a shame, really, and maybe my last comment about the potential, along with past experience and knowing what's possible is what keeps us around, perhaps clinging to a very thin thread of hope that someone will turn the light on.
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  10. Thanks for all the great replies.
    I am not really looking for other games, my steam library will keep me busy the next few years and the humble bundle deals take care of that its growing even when I don't want it to.

    Nah I am not really bitter about it.
    Its MAs decision to not provide an environment I enjoy, so its my decision to play rarely and very low level.
    Yes I am sad about my society and all the other great people I met in the game, but as it will take me the next few years to slowly sell my stuff there is always the chance things might change again.
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 2
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  11. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    I noticed that you posted this thread at PCF as well to get a take on what the more congregated forum has to say about your view, but what I see are some talking about "things" that have been added to the game that makes it different, rather than the "sense and feel" of how it drew us in, that in turn inspired a desire to be a part of a more vibrant and engaging connectedness.

    Game-play is a personal and subjective experience, and what many of us considered to be a more socially-immersed environment doesn't matter to some.
  12. Hey you are one of the few people that spell my name correctly. Thanks!
    Yes back in 2006 the potential of the game was really tangible, but that was backed up by a lot of things that were working.
    The list of bugs, broken systems, missing features and never closed story lines would be a sad thing... let me just say that there is not so much that really works well anymore. The giant on whose shoulders one could have stood has left the house it seems... its sad.

    Yes I wanted to see how others felt there too.
    Of course game play is subjective, but I believe if you have a MMO with a 3d engine its safe to assume that the world around the player should play an important part, else one could just go for a browser MMO or play a RPG within a chat client.
    I dont even believe the gfx have to be top of the line, they just have to be able to immerse the player.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. A troll without a life who seems to only post when MA starts to have bad times and then leaves when it goes back to normal. I guess you as some others just feed of this negativity.
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
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  14. dalewj

    dalewj StoryTeller/Nerd/Gamer

    YEs I agree Poor McC took so much away from what in 2007 we all considered our end game.
    • He never gave anything.... well actually he gave so much stuff he inspired me to be the person I am in my game.
    • He has no life... oh ya lol after PE he lost his life... sad.. sorry McC... btw so did Wistrel and MS9 and Star, ND, Def,.... and all those people who have done nothing since the end of PE (our end game). Hell we are old and put out to pasture... no more games for us.... Our knowledge is useless and by far should not be shared with others.... we should have our last beer and be sent to WoW for the end...... I got guys/gals in my game that are in their 80s... who the hell think they are playing games for 30+ years! bastards! get a life stop trolling!
    • And ya he left when the shit when bad. man that movie he was making for 3 years.. well you all know he had nothing to do with it... its terrible that he made tried to make a movie and pull together his end game.... ya he aint worth ..you bastard McC. Dammit ... yo... you gaming hero of mine. BASTARD!
    And now back to our regularly scheduled troll.....
    ..and for you bastard trolls out there... may your end game be found again and hopefully actually this time be the end game..cause this shit is getting old.....
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
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  15. Could not have said it better Dalewj. People will see and believe what they "need" to to justify and fit in with their own structure of life. (Keeping it short)

    I will add this as something interesting to watch from LandMark
    (regarding the- reply to Wistrel above about voxel environments)


    Published on 6 Aug 2014
    West coast of Tor Island on Courage server SOE Landmark. Swing by anytime.

    Immersion in what your doing and being involved and a part of something collectively bigger.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  16. Please folks don't hate on McCormick.
    Alongside Bambuco and many others he was one of the creative geniuses, but when EU got its new look it no longer provided the possibilities to be as creative.
    Bambuco decided to not bother anymore as far as I can see, as I did not see much posts from him, but McCormick decided to create content pointing out all that he perceived as negative.
    Personally I try to avoid spending my time too much on negativity, but with a creative mind like he has maybe that is just a way to get it out of his system, so one has got to respect that.
    I would love to see some positive content from players emerge again, but the current systems seem to rather discourage such.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. I agree with your post, though will add to it so both ends of the spectrum are visible.

    McCormick and others who go misunderstood for the valuable contributions they have made in the past and up to the present day in a creative way to help MindArk refocus on what is important in realigning the course of the ship MindArk before it hits a mega-berg that will indeed see it eventually sink (At whatever rate as it is already slowly going down from the smaller bergs it has hit though not all buoyancy tanks are ruptured yet) often go misunderstood and therefore labelled trolls.

    It is the bringing about awareness that McCormick does in his own way and that others like MS9 and many others have tried to in the past in their own ways using their own specific talents and attached experiences that needs to be heard and listened to for things to evolve and improve.

    It is also partly the reason I keep on investing small amounts of energy when I can working at other levels and from different tangents eg. Company structure, workflow and other processes, defining of roles and talent and contributions to development ideas, ways of thinking and methods of re-establishing connections within the company and with the consumers along with showing how the such can be achieved through demonstration (Other games/etc that I am often labelled for recruiting to leave Entropia and play those games instead) and where they are seeded from (eg. Booby the tongue does this part well) that will bring things back on-track/course from where the "revolutionary concept" that Jan "had" in his younger days got hit offtrack/course due to real world financial limitations imposed (And other factors/influences outlined in other threads ... keeping this reply short)

    Sadly the dynamic RCE component is only one small part of the overall concept that has had a counterproductive impact too;

    Too much emphasis on one component and not on the others that support it. Like adding too much fuel (throttle) to the engine at the wrong time and flooding it, stalling the engine or in lesser instances creating a backfire of epic proportions ...

    No one is hating on McCormick except those who do not understand/comprehend what the tr/uck is going on, that is where awareness needs to come about between those who get it and those who don't get it.

    It is much like in the real world, are you going to see only the capsule it is delivered in, or the message within ?

    Maybe you will SEE the capsule only, and not understand the messages being displayed.

    Maybe you will be too focused on SEEing the outcomes that were produced in the end (too many to link and the majority are distasteful/negative towards MA & Jon/NDS) and fan community reaction (sample) to "SEE" that a RED light means STOP because you were too busy looking away (Cognitive dissonance as defined by MS9) before it is too late and no recovery from what lays ahead is possible.

    Of course it would frustrate McCormick and others who DO get it, it is obvious he is still passionate about something that has been a part of his life for more than a decade now. Only idiots would call him a troll; and that is frustration in itself as you can't fix stupid (Even though some believe stupid can be overcome through an awareness and learning process as human beings *smiles*);

    Instead only attempt to bring about awareness of what the tr/uck is going on before it slams into them.
    (Or as in the berg example above ruptures the remaining buoyancy tanks and sinks the ship with titanic potential MA/EU with all involved onboard)

    And welcome to EP Pirx, good to see you contribute here on this forum. :thumbup:

    If the time comes, we will still be here comfortable in knowing we did what we could and not too many had their lives turned inside out in-due-course. Hopefully what we are doing now will never see this time come about as no one wants this, McC included.

    Too many now have their livelyhoods hinged on this ship making it. eg. Those who are now a part of the Ark...adia to mention one who is making an attempt and then those on the consumer/investing consumer (participant) side.

    All in all it is actually those calling people like McCormick trolls that need to be catered for in giving them the TLC they require (And some of us continue to give this TLC, personal frustration with them aside), especially after several demonstrations of how tall they continue to stand in this position - Usually as the village idiots who kinow no better, they just need some guidance in seeing how such things fit into the overall picture. ie. pros & cons of the impacts within the virtual universe on all levels - RCE all the way through to the consumer's attitudes including (dis)trust of MA/PP's competencies in using this approach/strategy.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  18. I was always here, just had not too much to say.
    As Entropiabay seems to be down apparently my own Inventory Calculator seems to be the only one left that is available, so I am also fishing for reasons to involve myself more again.
    I had no energy and motivation to improve my site and as Entropiabay offered much more in tools it was also kinda pointless...
    If I am the only one left to provide a tools site I feel I maybe should improve it...
    Not playing the game much does not help with motivation though ;-)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Aye I understand, by the way the post above was not directed at you specifically, but more as an awareness post for the benefits of others to see where people like McCormick and others are coming from.

    Though I knew you would have gathered this already :wink:

    About EntropiaBay, aye it was very useful when it was operating, many good contributors have come and gone sadly.

    I know how you feel about making an effort and questioning "is it worth it" to improve your own calculator in lieu of EB missing now;

    I can't answer that to be honest. There is a lot of talent in our community in many areas. Though the drive and inspiration to donate our time and energies are like you said, very much lacking. The trend of this occuring is worsening over time also. Even Magyar recently wrapped it up for the time being.

    What ever you decide, do not feel obligated to update your calculator. Do it when you feel inspired and willing to, as then your coming from the right space, coming from any other space you will lose a lot of your own personal touch to the project.

    Once you turn it into an obligation, you turn it into a job, not a hobby and it loses its appeal and magic.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  20. MA having a bad time right now ?
    Seems like I returned at the right place, at the right time, with the right words, eh ? ;)
    When did it go "back to normal" again the last time ?
    I forgot...
    Forgive my ignorance, because I usually stay away when MA is doing good.

    Man, I hate it even more when they are doing good.
    Im so full of hate...but thank god they are having bad times right now, according to you,
    so Im only a little bit displeased.

    And you feed of all the positive things MA is doing, right ?
    Hey, thats cool too.

    Forgive me OZTwo but I simply cant put you to ignore yet,
    as I really start to enjoy your show. :'D

    Without you, this discussion would not have your name in it. Thank you !
    (uuhh, that was low, even for me) ;)
    • Funny Funny x 3

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