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Life, the Universe and Everything can continue

Discussion in 'Life, the Universe and Everything' started by Jamira, May 22, 2018.

  1. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Yes, the right section is the same as the middle section and useless. It would be a multiplicator IF the effects of in- or decreasing appear. So we built the left and the middle section only as shown at the other drawing.
     
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  2. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    Gears fascinate me but I don't have much luck visualising them in my head. I hope you manage to make this ok. My friend 3D printed some planetary gears in situate (i.e. they are impossible to take apart) that are really rather fun to spin.
     
  3. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Tolerances are a problem. I make holes bigger and shafts smaller regarding the accuracy of my printer - usually ±0,1mm to fit and ±0,15mm to run free. Parts with such built-in tolerances cannot be scaled later. One must know exactly the final dimensions when starting the construction. Life is hard!
    One of my test-prints with ±0,2mm. That was to much.
    upload_2018-8-15_20-24-24.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  4. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    We had a hype lately regarding 3D printed guns and downloadable data for such weapons (Cody Wilson). I know a lot about the quality of such data. It's always the same when laymen try to do jobs of professional engineers or artists: it's bullshit.

    So I decided to check Cody Wilson's "Liberator" handgun. I downloaded the data from 3dsha.re already. It's a zip-file containing 16 STL-parts with cryptic names. First hurdle for stupid laymen in Europe: One must know that Cody Wilson lives in USA and uses inch instead of millimeter. Import inch-parts to a software witch uses millimeter or centimeter will end up with really small parts ;-)
    I imported all parts to Rhino. Just to get an impression:
    upload_2018-8-15_21-19-53.
    Oh, not really a gun but a pile of single parts. No clue how to put them together. A search for pictures delivered this:
    upload_2018-8-15_21-23-37.
    Let's see, what I can do with this material!
     
  5. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Overview:
    upload_2018-8-15_22-7-30.
     
  6. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Well, first test. Cody Wilson made a 0 to 0 construction:
    upload_2018-8-15_22-48-0.
    upload_2018-8-15_22-31-50.
    This won't work with any printer - cheap or expansive. Neither you would be able to put these parts together nor would it allow any movement.
    So we got next hurdle for potential users of this data: The parts have to be modified with a CAD-software. And one has to know what he is doing. While assuming that many can manage the inch vs. millimeter-hurdle, I doubt a lot of them can handle CAD-data to make proper models for prints.

    My first intention was to print the parts as they are. Just to show that it won't work. But that's obvious meanwhile. The more important question is: can someone with knowledge make a functional model from these data? I could ... but wait! There are several other questions. What about the springs?
    upload_2018-8-15_22-58-30.
    The pattern at this picture is 1x1 mm. These elements are pretty filigree. I doubt they will deliver the power we need.
    What about the diameter of the gun barrel?
    upload_2018-8-15_23-8-51.
    It's currently 9,398 mm. Is this an appropriate caliber?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  7. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Interesting topic, I know nothing about plastic guns.

    All you need to fire a modern bullet is an appropriate size 'pipe' with enough strength to withstand the explosion with something against the rear opening also strong enough to withstand the explosion. Then you just need to trigger the explosion by hitting the primer with something hard enough.

    I doubt a 3d printed gun is intended for more than one use, so durability isn't an issue, its also a short barreled contraption so accuracy isn't that critical, which means the hole size just needs to be close enough not to blow yourself up.

    9mm is a common caliber. I am also not a gunsmith, but would think that 9.4 would be pretty sloppy.......

    It looks like there are two barrels, I assume you can swap them out for a second shot?
    Wouldn't it be better to have a derringer type where the two barrels can be rotated in place on a swivel?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    What is the purpose of such a weapon? It should be possible to bring it through the standard weapon controls. At airports or schools. I own a plastic toy witch looks like a heavy handgun. I won't be able to smuggle it through the check-in at an airport. It looks like a heavy handgun even. It's silhouette would cause an alarm. Even the "Liberator" looks like a handgun. But split into single parts it would probably pass the controls. What is the effect of pulling out a handgun in a plane? Most people would feel it as a menace. That's possible with a plastic toy already. Probably over time some folks would doubt if it's a real weapon. So let's fire one shot and everybody will believe that you are able to fire more shots. THAT is the purpose of such undertakings.
     
  9. narfi

    narfi Lost

    If that is the case, then a .22 or even blanks would be better. you have the sound of a gunshot with less chance of blowing yourself up. However in that situation you no longer care about yourself......... The entire idea seems stupid to me, but I do think you could print yourself parts that assembled would 'look' like a gun, and fire a bullet like a gun. Are you going to create plastic bullets as well then? I do not think you would be taking normal bullets and casings through security.......

    All of this though, if that is the 'intended' use of the printed gun, then it does not need to be machined precisely at all, a close approximation of looks and firing once inaccurately is enough.... you could do that with a pocket knife and a block of wood and a drill......
     
  10. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    LOL! I would prefer something like this:
    upload_2018-8-16_0-8-23.
    or this
    upload_2018-8-16_0-9-59.
    In real life I am a pacifist ... more or less.
    My main theme at this point is to counterattack this stupid hype "WOW! Everybody will be able to print his own weapons soon!"
     
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  11. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Well, there is another aspect. I live in Germany. I am old. Occasionally at the loggia I think about how my life should end (and it will end definitely one day). With illness, cancer or dementia? Spending my last years not in the loggia but in a small room in a nursing home? My opinion is, that it would be better to say goodbye at the right point. That's a major problem in Germany. Either you try to get an illegal weapon, unaudited poison from dubious sellers or dash with 180 km/h into a tree. No chance to die in peace when the time has come. In this case one single effective shot could be the solution. Additional I won't hesitate to use metal parts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  12. narfi

    narfi Lost

    For me, I think I would differentiate between printing your own weapons and printing disposable devices of terror.......
    One I could get interested in, the other is impossible to eliminate from the minds of sick individuals.

    Printing your own weapon needs to have a different intended use defined for it.
    1. will not kill yourself
    2. can use commonly purchased amunition
    3.a. can be used enough to grow comfortable with shooting and proficient in hitting targets.
    3.b. Since self printed, can have a limited number of uses (say 10, 20, 50, 100, whatever....) before it should be destroyed to prevent it from hurting someone.

    or more loosely defined
    1. hobby (target shooting)
    2. self defense

    For hobby use, .22 is a cheaper, probably safer option than 9mm.
    Again not a gunsmith, but I would guess the barrel is the most critical aspect of the whole design.
    For a hobbyist I would think the ideal would be a purchased steel barrel, and all other parts self printed. If you did this, you could get very elaborate and nice looking guns built with good durability.
     
  13. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Well, that took a dark turn....
    I am not a proponent of suicide. But if that is your choice, it is my opinion that it would be selfish to leave a mess behind. I know it is a personal topic for you, and as of last year for me as well. A boy I raised through his teen years hung himself. It is not something I like to discuss or take lightly. Old age is a different aspect of that though, and has some differing philosophies. If it must be done, and you are not to be talked out of it, carbon monoxide is a better option, both for you, and for those you leave behind.
     
  14. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Don't worry. I am fine so far. But I saw how my mother vanished into dementia and lost my mother in law few days ago because she was very old and completely helpless. And again: My main target is to kill the hype about this possibility to print your own shotgun at home with a $300 printer whenever you want. I contacted the press already to talk about all this bullshit and correct all this to a more serious picture.
     
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  15. narfi

    narfi Lost

    There are two possible outcomes to your 'proof'
    1. you successfully make a functional gun - not your goal(or is it?)
    2. you fail in making a functional gun - no one will believe your failure means they can not make one because they want to succeed.

    imo, neither one of those outcomes will 'correct the bullshit' :P

    Why not do something more fun?
    A stylized steampunk blunderbuss?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Design it to run off of disposable co2 canisters and shoot airsoft pellets. You could sell that design!

    [​IMG]

    *All pictures ripped from google image search
     
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  16. San

    San

    Guns with low durability or that last even just one shot have an application in self-defense. I believe I saw such things offered somewhere for sale even, though it's hard to find on the web since search results get buried in hot topics around the whole gun issue. Even better-quality guns can be made of plastics (Glock is the most famous I think), although I doubt the materials and precision needed are available with current printers. There are likely to be issues with people having such printers if/when this changes.
     
  17. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    I think it is an admirable goal Jamira. The press do such sensational rubbish these days. There are 2 groups of people who have the time to say "hang on a minute, cut that out - and this is why", children - who don't have the skills and wouldn't be listened to anyhow, and the retired.

    So what would society rather have you do? Sit around drinking tea and watching day time TV? Or get involved and say "oi!".

    So indeed even given outcomes, maybe you will only make a small dent, maybe you won't and some bigger more influential news outlet will run the counter story.

    In many ways this sort of investigative checking is what is missing from journalism now. People just want a nice scary headline like "kids can print guns".

    So in short I think it's great that you are putting some of your time to addressing the true reality of the situation. As you say:

    1. There are setup, motivation and access costs for the time and gear to do the job
    2. There is a potential difficulty in accessing the designs maybe unless you are very persistent or know what you are doing
    3. The designs may be totally unbuildable without 3D skills to edit/correct them
    4. Even with the access to designs, resources, time, skills to make a working item it may be of very limited use, or may not work at all, even once.

    As a final point you may want to consider making, assess all the equipment, access skills, 3D skills, time, motivation etc that is needed to make one of these 3D printed guns and ask instead, "how far off is this in effort, skill, access, time etc to just doing it from scratch? e.g. by metal working a pipe?" in other words, have 3D printers created a new opportunity for amateur gun manufacture? or have they simply added an alternative (and likely crap) way to do it, that simply requires a different skill set and equipment?

    You may also want to consider the availability/"ease" of access of real guns too. For example, a friend of mine once read up on gun availability on the so called "Dark Web". Apparently it costs quite a bit to order them but they ship you the gun in parts hidden in other consumer items.

    This reminds me a bit of my review of Entropia Partners. i.e. yes there are all these ways to earn small monies through it or even go sweating, but really none come close to simply depositing into Entropia in terms of value of your time.

    Just to go totally left field with this one for a moment, anyone remember the "bone gun" from Existenz?

    [​IMG]

    Wistrel

    PS interesting to see your recommended tolerances for things fitting together and also for free movement. The first thing I made for "fitting into" something else, wasn't quite tight enough and I had to wrap it in electric tape to get it to hold. Not ideal. I really need to get some calipers (I think they are called) so I can measure things more accurately and adjust designs accordingly.
     
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  18. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Desert Eagles are grossly overpowered. I'd take a 9mm Glock any day.
     
  19. narfi

    narfi Lost

    People are fragile.
    Bears are not.
    Targets are fun with just a pump pellet gun.
     
  20. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Well, beyond weapons I finished my tablet stand:
    upload_2018-9-1_22-15-15.
    The bronze colour is really impressive. I love it.
    I found a "standby mode" when the figure is not in use. Just as a statue:
    upload_2018-9-1_22-18-11.
    It's the sexist view of an old white man, I know. Okay, love me or leave me. I'm proud to be able to make such artworks.
    And hey! It's unique. No one else owns such a figure! My wife was amused about this standby-version. But okay not every wife would share this feeling.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
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