Is Entropia a dead end?

Discussion in 'The Black Hole' started by Viperstrike, Jul 13, 2012.

  1. I did say play at level 50 comfortably, having stock onhand to play with ie. at least 10 of each of the items I listed and 50 or so amp ready to go (1 weeks supply), then loot storage for both hunting and mining loot. This is all crafting what I use, using no UnL equipment but instead having stock onhand that is (L) ready to go.

    I knew I would get negative no you don't feedback, but the key word was play comfortable and enjoying the game in a fun context with minimal expense to play, ie. losing max 10% per run, playing 10+ hours a day, building up loot at the rate of 5k+ ped a day (hunting & mining). Selling off stacks of 100 odd items that drop in quantities of 200 ped each and waiting for a week or two for each stack to sell.

    I am not talking about running off a fumes budget of 5,000 ped and cycling that, too painful at level 50 when hunting & mining at the same time. That would likely last a few days only until your stuck with loot that you need to sell and in most cases not enough to produce proper stacks.

    The budget mentioned above is for sustained play, not TTing anything but collected ammo, selling off all else to other players and continuing to play in the meantime.

    Sure it can be done with a smaller bankroll, eg 50k ped if you buy everything instead of crafting your own, but when crafting your own, you need to store crafting loot to be able to do that on a continual basis too and have equipment onhand.

    Anyway each to their own, realistically though to craft your own and have a weeks supply of goods ready to go omhand, I will be needing a budget of 100k ped.

    The 150k ped mentioned (making 250k ped in total) is just for getting my skills to where I feel comfortable playing the game, level 50. Below that and the game is not fun, been there done that, got my 280k skills naturally last time.

    So in essence skipping the lower levels and chipping back in to where it is fun is going to cost at least 150k ped, 73,500 spent so far and then a healthy bankroll of 100k ped, 50k of which is for onhand equipment, 50k is for loot storage for sales capacity (In all cases a week's worth/storage/sales capacity/equipment onhand).

    I personally see nothing wrong with these figures for level 50. Imo it is a lot cheaper than it was a few years ago (The skill chipping back in part anyway).
  2. narfi

    narfi Lost

    I guess I am still baffled by what you can do at L50 that you can't do at L40hunting, L25crafting and L10-15 mining.

    There is no 'mid lvl' (L) gear unlocked at 50 which can be purchased for an economical MU.


    ps. while I do feel strongly on the subject, this discussion is purely philosophical for me, I think your goal/project sounds fun, I just don't understand it. (so no hard feelings for disagreeing :D )
  3. Here is a list of (L) equipment, minimum 1 weeks supply.

    Crafting runs are done on quantity only, no condition, minimum 10 items/run.

    Initial invest - Starting out equipment then sustained through 5000ped/month

    10 x Zombie (L) sets, 305 ped each = 3,050 ped
    10 x P5a Handgun, 222 ped each = 2,220 ped
    10 x Apis, 205 ped each = 2050 ped
    10 x Rutic Bett, 1,590 ped each = 15,900 ped
    10 x Kesmek Bett, 1,010 ped each = 10,100 ped
    50 x Smacker 3, 80 ped each = 4,000
    50 x Mining Amp 7, 120 ped each = 6,000 ped
    5 x TK-320, 311 ped, 1,555 ped

    Ammo to drive guns, 10,000 ped
    Probes to drive mining, 5,000 ped

    Loot storage 20,000 ped = 100 stacks @ 200 ped / 50 stacks @ 400 ped
    Mining Storage 20,000 ped = As above, average stacks between 50 and 100.

    Total Bankroll = ~ 100k ped initial stock/equipment, amoo/probes & storage

    Skills, so far 73,500 ped has achieved >

    A lot of ped is still needed to hit 6k in most (not all) skills listed.
    I will list total costs in the blog as the months go by.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  4. I know narfi, I am working to level 80, 50 is just a starting point.
    Book III weapon recipes, VRX2k and staying with the same amps will be a much into the future goal. Again crafting my own to use.

    This is just a starting point level 50, hence why I am documenting/blogging all the costs involved to achieve my starting point that I am comfortable with :)
  5. You have taken the quote out of context, playing at level 50+ on mid range mobs is garbage at 25usd/month is what I was referring to, 250 ped I wouldn't even consider a run these days just in ammo. 500 ped ammo + armor + fap + gun is a single run that lasts a few hours at level 50; and what then do you do with the loot, in most cases 500 ped ammo is nowhere near enough to build up any stacks, so you generally TT it which results in further loss.

    Second part, yes I am retired and willing to drop that sort of cash into Entropia and do think everything is generally ok, not saying there isn't room for improvement for the many problems that exist. Like I said, its like buying a car to drive around and enjoy, you make your purchase (initial invest) then pay for fuel, rego, insurance (ongoing finance) to enjoy your investment :)

    Hope that clears it up for you.

    Low level, eg. Newcomer just starting 25 usd will last a few days if you keep cycling the loot to TT. Others claim you can sell it off at Twin peaks etc , but that takes quite some time in some instances - my opinion only is that wouldn't be fun and hence why we see so many leave so quickly.

    Again, each to their own playstyles, my investment plan and costs attached are only for level 50+ play of which I am documenting along the way so others can see where the money is being spent, not for 30+, not for 15+, not for 5+ and not for 80+.

    You need to invest at the level you wish to play at which is different in all respects, depending on your personal goals and what you see as fun.

    And ofc, you could do 25/usd per month as a newcomer, but I couldn't see you sticking around too long :) There are exceptions to this rule ofc, but not in the masses cases.

    Anyhow, I know newcomers can survive off low deposits as i am sponsoring a few at this time, here is one of them. As painful and frustrating as his adventure seems to be to me, I think he is having fun doing it.

    Dtlers' log >

    That is the reality that is Entropia.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012

  6. I forgot to mention something. First off thank you for the politeness, especially on a potentially heated topic.

    Now I joined PE around 03-04 range. Even then, there was some complaining of ubers and skilling. Some of it boiled down to how much time and/or money some wished to place. The rest was simply, they arrived first and skilled first. I had met some ubers who got to were they were by sweating.

    With that in mind, lets assume that those ubers keep skilling. They of course will keep raising the plateau making it difficult but not impossible to catch up.

    What we need is a comprehensive economy analyses that takes into account inflation, market value, depreciation, and an economical ratio for cost of living/gaming then and now.

    In other words. If we break down the cost per ratio, would it show a decrease or increase in cost. An example in real life:

    Here in the US the cost of living and the minimum wage was higher in the 1920's than it is now. At first glance it will not appear that way because the initial cost of some items, say a soda can, would be a nickel. While now it is 75 cents. It would appear that it was cheaper but when GNP and other such measurements are considered. It was more expensive back then.

    An example in Entropia, would be sweat. One can monitor economy by the value of sweat. There was a time that one sweat equaled a pec or 2. Now it is less. At another time-frame 1k sweat brought you 10ped now it is 2.5k.

    Personally, I feel that EU is looking out for the newbies more than anything. Pec-weapons, free-equipment, quest-rewards, etc...
  7. That was an awesome Blog to read. Thanks for sharing =)

  8. Narfi,
    You seemed to be filled with great info. I admit hunting is my secondary profession mainly because I was not sure how to skill it because I never focused on it. It was harder to sell loot than ore or enmatter. That and I hunted solely for the aesthetic fun of usinf a sword on critters. A not quite, eco friendly, method.
  9. Your most welcome, aye Dtler is doing a good job.

    Im actually sponsoring three people at the moment, Dtler being one of these and have other sponsorships running elsewhere too, eg. Johan Roadkill Deadmeats' - 100 PED lost my ticket event.


    Also gifted a newcomer to our society a new T6 106 Finder that i picked up relatively cheap for 2k ped last week, he has been hosting a private forums blog which is fantastic. The guy has the right mindset to Entropia, small funds to work with but definitely a go getter :)

    Funny thing was that last post in that thread, about being a yoda against the dark side.

    Same day he goes and loots this lmao > Light saber
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  10. That is amazing that you do that for newcomers. Kinda crazy that he was the first to discover that sword and then selling it for 1k is just plain good fortune. Gave you a rep for that ^_^
  11. Cheers bud, I feel the way to expand this game is to help with newcomer events in keep them retained long enough so that they see the greater value in playing Entropia.

    Thanks for the rep, but not needed, just happy to help out where a person can :)

    Take Care,
  12. Well, obviously Viperstrike is an awesome person, I'm pretty sure we can all agree on that. Where we may disagree is the value in the investment Viperstrike has chosen to make, but it all really comes down to what we as subjects are entertained by. If I had a lot of money I would have spent a portion on Entropia. Why? Is it perfect? Fuck no, it ain't, and I wouldn't trust MA with a buck, but it is entertainment we cannot find anywhere else - and this is the main problem of today and simple economics: they don't have to listen to their consumers, because they have no competitors.

    I just recently came back to EU from a summer break; my fingers are itching for a large deposit (a "large" deposit for me is 5k PED since I'm a student who barely makes it through the month), but since I cannot afford an investment of Viperstrike's kind, my 5k PED wouldn't be enough to sustain my living unless I wish to live like an "eco warrior".

    My point is that many players hate on EU because of how expensive it is to play; that said, there's high entertainment to find if one can afford such entertainment, and in such a case I don't consider 25k USD to be a high cost.

    We all wish to hate on MA because there's not much else to do but nosebleed ourselves paying for level 8 amps mining or hunting high, but the fact is that MA has given us the tools to do a lot of things. Why is Arkadia's beautiful city empty? There's a bar there. A lot of chairs, yet we hang out at the Querry. Why? Because most players' don't want to do anything else than hunt, mine and craft, and that is the ugly truth. It falls to us as players on how we wish to spend our time in the game; it's free to discuss politics, religion, drugs, literature and any other heated subject that could provide us all with intelletual stimulation - but, alas, you wish not. How hard would it really be to start a book club on classics, for instance? But the players' simply do not want to. This is one thing where MA is not to blame.

    Not to mention that most EU participants seem to be over-sensitive Americans' that "wants to play a game and not discuss politics/religion/offensive subjects" (you'd be surprised on what mainstream EU-people find offensive; it's laughable, and the reason I have stayed a freelancer). Well, fuck you, then, but I personally believe that the socialization in Entropia Universe doesn't have to cost money and can benefit the small minded people of Planet Earth - free of charge.

    A lot of rambling, and for that I apologize, but I just wish to point out that the responsibility of stimulation without charge is up to the players. If they are too sensitive, too stupid or simply too much interested in spending money, then there's really nothing MA can do; no matter how much art shows they place in the game, or how many beautiful rooms with chairs standing empty. The possibilities of no-charge, stimulating online-time in EU are endless, but the players are simply not interested, so what can MindArk do about it?

    With regards,
    Divide D. Impera
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Hi,

    awesome post, love it!
    Lemme respond to some few points:

    Lemme guess - maybe because it's deadly boring hanging around now, doing nothing but chatting?
    Lemme compare this to Atlas Haven ages ago:
    • We had a music box, and all the time someone was playing the next tune for the local area. Hanging out with Boldar wasn't only chatting, someone had to rise up and start the next tune, any other minute. And even if it was only the same 20 tunes over and over, it was fun.
    • And since we all had the same tunes in the local area, we danced. Everybody tried to sync best to the sound, we tried to dance in groups, we really had fun.
    • We didn't just stand around showing one of a few boring and poorly animated poses as we do today, we could sit, lay, slide on the ground. It was fun.
    • In the end we only had a few simple possibilities more to juice up the chatting. But it worked, and you'd nearly always could join a group of ppl having fun together.
    You recognize the common word? "Fun"? Taking away the music boxes and some of the avatar possibilities, even if many was quite silly, changed the game. The "fun" shuddered, ran away, and crouched below a well hidden stone. Where it hides until today, never found anymore.

    And the avatars hiccuped, looked stupidly at each other, and went to their boring daily duties, frustrated. A small step for MA, a big disaster for the participants.

    Is there anything left besides?
    If I want to do an ordinary chat, I use IRC. This (a client) runs on any age-old laptop, I don't need to pay for a full-fletched gamer machine for it.

    In EU I just meet too few ppl anymore, and nearly all are firmly caught in the "loot-evaluate-sell" circle - the "happy hanging out" of the old days has lost it's mechanics, and it's meaning. And thus EU has lost a lot of fun.

    Offer the mechanics for it, again?

    Isn't this the way that MA propagates?
    • Spend insane money for the newest, even more sturdy mob, it will loot great!
    • Don't care of old or weaker mobs, they'll not drop anything of value.
    • Go higher, better, faster! Ignore any fun, it's all about the loot!
    • Don't waste any time, get your 10K challenge done before we change the reward!
    And you can summarize:
    • Give us more money, NOW!
    I can stand this, I had a few nice loots and am in the winning zone. I don't withdraw 'cause I don't really need the coin. But for the future of the game I don't see any bright skies. I have decided to risk my few 10K's of PEDs, and watch it until the bitter end.

    PE once was such a great game, but it was reduced to the sheer gambling machine of today. I don't even think of depositing anymore. Until somebody will find the one stone, where the fun is hiding below. And is turning it, and will bring fun, joy and excitement back!

    Meet you then! Have a good time!
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Up Downrange Killshot

    Up Downrange Killshot Xx Downrange xX

    I am a brand new player to Entropia. I started 4 days ago and I have played almost every MMO since Ultima Online ((Yes that far back)) Honestly, I wish I had found this yeaaaars ago... There is something about an adult only cash game that just makes everyone easier to get along with. I've not found one person I dislike in the game and that is really saying something.
    As to whether it is dead or not... Who cares. The people that matter still play and new blood, like myself, will always see a good game and come running. My problem was I just never gave it a look, heard of it, but never looked at it. Maybe MindArk should advertise more?? That's up to them.

    BOTTOM LINE --- The Game F-in Rocks.

    Carpe Diem.
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. They should definitely advertise more, if it hadn't been for an article about the purchase of the asteroid by neverdie on a news site, I would never have known about it.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Hi,

    Be welcome here! It's good to see new ppl coming in! I really wish that you can keep your enthusiasm, and that we'll still see you here in one more year.

    Don't hesitate about posts like mine above - maybe it's actually more easy for new players to be happy with the game of today.
    For us old players it's, maybe, too much of "once we could do this" and "once we could that" that blocks our line of sight. And, maybe, the knowledge that the game that we, once before ages, started with similar great verve as you do now, has morphed into another, new game; and the inability to accept this.

    You might have a look at old screenshots, it was actually strange back then. Avatars looked strange, the scenery looked very strange, but anything had a certain grim, sinister atmosphere.
    With only USD 25 a month you could play quite comfortable, and have a lot of possibilities. Maybe you ran dry on day 20, but then there was a lot of people everywhere, and it was quite easy to sell your loot.
    A lot of ppl everywhere - yes. Port Atlantis usually was kind of of a slide show, this many ppl there. And most outposts was populated, and even in the most remote deserts you'd meet another player, once an hour.

    Today it's strange again, just in another way. Not anymore grim and sinister, today it's all shiny and polished, we all look like clones of Barbie and Ken, and the cities look like the drug-influenced plan of a shopping mall for 2020, and the scenery looks like an Caribbean Island mostly (Cry influence?). We've lost the "space frontier feeling" that once made a huge part of the game.
    And the game became expensive. The valuable loot more and more wandered to the "costly to kill" mobs exclusively, the "cost to kill" of these went up (HP multiplication and regeneration), and the average loot diminished in exchange to very few insanely high loots. Today I have no problem to waste my monthly USD 25 in one afternoon, only grinding mobs well below my skills, just with bit of bad luck.
    And selling the loot has become troublesome - ways fewer ppl at the trading centers, and the population spread out over quite some planets.
    Today, I have no problem at all to play all day long without encountering a single other player.

    Ah, you see? That's us old players being unhappy, dreaming of the things that "we once could do" ;-) Not able to stop whining about the good ol' times when this game was this f-in awesome!

    But maybe you understood. And, maybe, in 7 years you'll write similar posts. ;-)))

    My best wishes too you, and to all other newcomers! Don't get repelled by the sour posts of us slowly decomposing oldies, read it as it's meant: "You'll be the next one to write such posts, if we can't get MA to make this game more participant-friendly.". In a few years then, or such :)

    I don't think it's a matter of advertising. Day by day new players arrive, are trying this, and as long as close to all (but the few hardcores) drop within the first week/ month/ year we'll not get any serious increase in player numbers.

    It's the game mechanics, it's the way loot is distributed, it's the way of MA sucking up all money that is spent without carefully calculating eco and effectiveness. It's the "making this game a big hunt for the huge jackpot", instead of providing a cool game for people that appreciate this niche. And this is what made this game enter an ever smaller niche, the niche of the gamblers.

    Again my best wishes to you & fellow newcomers. Stay here, find your place, don't hesitate to ask me for help (as long as you find me on line). You are very much appreciated, and I'll go long ways to be of help.

    But keep a critical view on the game, watch it developing, decide yourself what's good and what's bad, and articulate your concerns. Don't let you fool by my posts, or by those from the fan-bois.

    Participate in the game and in the discussion. Be a part of it.

    Thx, and have a good time!

    PS: This was meant to explain the negativity of some of my posts to Downrange, to support him and give further information. +Rep added. In my little book it's all of us that make the difference, because without all of us MA would sit on empty servers.
    • Like Like x 1

  17. EU is R.C.E wise a very bad game.
    Seeing the share model on you can understand why this game is so bad for almost all people who think they can make money trough this game.

    35% of your deposits will end up at the big investors who own the planets or in this case the moon.
    Many think that because you can find stuff with mark-up and thus trade smart you can overcome this loss and work towards break-even or profit.


    Even if you succeed in getting break-even or profit it means it has to come from someone else his deposit and thus this person will experience more than 35% loss.

    So in the end you see what can be confirmed by tons of people who played E.U.
    You only loose in the end, one way or another.

    Do not talk crap about 15 dollar MMO's because Entropia Universe has proven to be a expensive game with a always loosing formula for regular players. If a game would cost 15 dollar a month it would not take away the option it could be fun.

    Have fun!
    • Hussked Hussked x 1
  18. narfi

    narfi Lost

    I believe this is wrong, could you provide me with a reference?

    There is a big difference between saying 35% of profits, and saying 35% of deposits. (though in the end they 'can' be the same)
  19. See the link i provided in the post.
    To save time :

    I was shocked also to see Entropia admit this share model with the public.
    Revenue Sharing

    Revenue generated through participant activity will be shared with the Moon Manager as follows:
    • Activity on the moon estate by participants recruited by Moon Manager: 35%
    • Activity on the moon estate by all other participants: 10%
    • Activity elsewhere within Entropia Universe by participants recruited by the Moon Manager: 25%
  20. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Ok, yes it is like I thought.

    That is not of deposits, that is of revenue generated.

    A player deposits 100ped and looses 10. (typical situation)
    3.5 of those ped go to the moon manager, the rest goes to MA.

    Not the 35ped (35% of what was deposited) that I quoted you above.
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