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Discussion in 'Entropia News' started by MindStar9, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. Short hangar history list:

    November 2003: First hangars are sold in auction.​
    February 2004: After investing time and PEDs for parts, you can enter the spaceship, but not fly.​
    June 2004: Crystal Palace Space Station available, through 'teleport' with the spaceship.​
    December 2005: Asteroid Space Resort (CND/FOMA) available.​
    August 2009: Version update 10, to CryEngine 2. Hangars and spaceships removed.​
    April 2011: Hangars reintroduced. But no spaceship.​
    June 2011: Space travel is introduced. Hangar owners get a thruster (but no ship).​
    July 2011: Space mobs is introduced. Hangar owners get a non-functional ship​
    (out in space and no space Shuttle in the hangar)​

    ...to follow ...​
    by DeeDee : Pilot intergalactic / Hangar owner

    Hello MindStar and everyone.

    It's hard for us, young pilots of Entropia. We are still waiting for the optimization and finalization of our general system. As you know, one of the major objectives of 'Project Entropia' is to make us travel around the world with a super high-performance virtual space shuttle to transport tourists, trades, goods, hunters, crafters, miners, adventurers, artists, among all the planets and thus continue the conquest of deep space to new planets at the start of Calypso.

    To make us wait again, our general system has undergone a significant transformation today is a progression. The black hand of the new global movement hit: Our real estate deed was divided into 2 estate deeds. These acts are not completed at their dévellopment. Some plans are still under investigation and systems are being tested. There are bugs to be corrected and some modifications to do to finalize our investments. We assume that this will be implemented in future updates during the third year of waiting. We are awaiting further information from the new global movement.

    The many official pilots intergalactic of the universe hoping that the engineers of the 'MA space corporation' will have the expected level for developing future intergalactic shuttle that will link all the planets for tourists and adventurers of space in these wonderful landscapes stellar faster and more secure than a 'Little bird' or a 'Big Mama'. We look forward to the new galactic interplanetary shuttle scheduled to land in hangars Calypso to finalize our investments in space as a pilot.

    Currently i'm still pilot (taxi of space) to a new area in the middle of the universe monsters and killers. I drink less in my bar and i take coffee with 'Big Mama', although there is always plenty of bottles in my bar (...)​
    As a pilot, i replaced my mk2 L for a Quad L. ( not a gift from MA !)​

    dedication to 'Mymy' : my first passenger on my quad L​
    When i fly with my passengers into space, now i listen to regularly:

    as usual, sorry for my English / Thank you for your attention / Osiris - intergalactic pilot from Paris
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Very nice post Osiris ... I like that you presented it almost in story format, which gave it an even greater appeal. I'm hoping that all things turn out ok for the hangar owners and pilots.

    And thank you for listening to MindStar Radio, it's appreciated. I'm going to be adding more music into the playlist soon, so you'll be hearing some new stuff introduced. :)
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Okay,
    (Probably gonna be a long post, fair warning.)

    A very interesting read. But I am afraid all of it amounts to naught. As all the facts have been laid out on the table, it should be abundantly clear that MA considers the Hanger Owner's investments "Old Money". It's not that they should or shouldn't do this, it's perfectly okay to. But how they are treating that classification of investment by any stretch of the imagination is not right.

    Essentially, the same thing was done to the hangar owners that would be the equivelent of MA suspending crafting cause the machines were on the fritz. If you are a crafter that has invested in lots of high end BP's, skill implants, rare materials, you are now foo bared. Because a healthy percentage of the "machine's" Ped Algorythm comes from crafting, MA would never do this.

    But because the 'old money' received income in forms that had no recordable value as far as the great machine was concerned, they had to manually track it. I know full well that prior to the suspension of space travel, hangar owners were for the most part making decent progress towards balancing out their investment.

    This is a problem for MA. You are making money, they are not. That has always been the problem. I quit investing back in 2008 when I noticed a 85% drop in my crafting ability. This was the start of what I refer to as the first great suck out, when MA required funds to pay off programmers to code stuff. At any given point in time, MA will do this, because they are not required to leave the pay out rate alone, unlike any casino, or other investment firm.

    The point I am trying to make here is this, although MA boasts a RCE, it might as well say "For Entertainment Only." as far as they are concerned. Where as we, the investees are constantly engaged in trying to break even, douse losses, or even profit, they (MA) are just as engaged in the opposite.

    What should burn everyone to a crisp is that during the highest hof competition for the motherships, the result was exactly as I predicted it to be, only the most uber of ubers will win the motherships, and then they will ALSO have a leg up in buying the ones on auction.

    This entire space expansion is also a front to satisfy those ubers, and rather than have them make PeD from the great machine like everyone else, they have given the ubers a very large "ranch" where they can go and blast people transporting goods back and forth from planets doing HONEST work to profit. I find this highly distressing, even not being involved in that investment bracket where I would travel.

    I also have concluded that the reason why the TP from Calypso to FOMA was reopened is because the amount of materials on Calypso dwindled considerably with no way to safely transport them back to the planet. This fact was further inflamed by the fact that someone was confirmed looted for over 3000 ped in space.

    But hangar owners are not receiving anything from the TP fees this time. Looking at the chart that was displayed earlier, I highly doubt they were receiving 100% of the fees prior either. If even just half of the hangar owners know 2 unique people that go back and forth from the asteroid to Calypso per day, that is already in excess of what each hangar owner made according to the chart. So unless the hangar owners and the crafters know the same set of people, which might be in a few cases only, I highly doubt that MA was giving out 100% of the TP fees. I alone knew/know about a dozen people that do this, and sometimes went a couple times a day. You can also refer to your income after the launch of Arkadia until the inception of space. If the hangar owners did not see an amazing spike in income received, then I doubt if MA was giving out any of those TP fees. I gauge this simply from my own society and how many I KNOW for a FACT went to Arkadia, and then later came back. I would only assume that this was the commonplace thing as they reported seeing lots and lots of people on Arkadia.

    You hangar owners are being taken advantage of by MA. Your investments mean nothing to them. Although it is sad, I do respect you all as pioneer investors, and it is very dispicable of MA to treat your good faith investments as dirt. I will say that the way that MA has treated it's real estate investors is pathetic, as when you invest with a company, your investment dividends should be growing as the company grows. I have seen MA grow from a small concept company to a mega giant, but they seem to be the only ones making money, and for as exponential as their growth is, the real estate investors potential is limited. This may have something to do with why the asteroid was sold.

    The last several VU additions to the Universe have been very much biased towards MA's profit margins, and not about attracting potential investors. MA is not providing a turnkey platform for investors any longer in my opinion, they have found it far more lucrative to offer it as a free "game" with the potential to make real world money.

    But as they are so preoccupied with lining their own pockets with other people's invested gold, they have overlooked something that so far as I can tell is 100% legit, and cannot be contested, and requires MA to change the dynamics of space drastically to prevent it.

    I know that the hangar owners have been hurt. Their hard earned cash is sitting as unused pixels on Calypso, with no real tangible promise of it being lucrative. Most of them have either ceased to log in except very rarely for short durations, or have attempted to find other avenues of profit. But there is a way to strike back at MA, and turn their beloved 'uber' ranch into something they will regret ever developing.

    Please don't take this as "I want to get revenge on MA" as it can be construed as that, but more as, MA wants to change the dynamics, so I will adapt my business.

    First off, you will have to get all hangar owners together, as it will require the cooperation of all in order to be fully effective. Start a soc, web forum, instant messenger, whatever, doesn't matter. Somewhere you all can conveine to set this up. You must all form the first ever union in Entropia Universe. Call it whatever you wish, but understand that it is a union. This also must be highly organized, scheduled and coordinated in order to work, for any gap, and it is a hole with which to drive a wedge into to make it fall apart.

    The equipment will require an additional investment, but it is a means to an end. You must decide how to acquire no less than 3 motherships, fully complemented.

    I know you all have invested a lot so far, but MA has taken away your livelyhood, and if it were me I would look for some legal ramification if any was possible. But this investment will not be as long term as the first, and unless MA either changes the pvp lootable environment of space, or shuts it off altogether, they can not take it away from you.

    The fully armed and tiered up motherships will serve as a blockade around Calypso. All motherships will be the primary communications ship for their area. I suggest that you also set up a Ventrillo server, or Teamspeak, will make it easier. In the Calyspo sector, no ship takes flights from Calypso without paying a fee to a courier that relays the message of fee paid to the MS assigned to that sector. Ideally the ship being escorted that has paid the passage fee, should be on a path that takes them near the mothership, so they can verify that there is in fact a warship that would of blown them out of the sky without payment.


    There of course, will be ships that get through, but with practice, and positioning, it will eventually turn into a blockaded toll system. Where instead of needing hangars, you simply charge a modest fee of 40 ped for safe passage with escort to destination. But you also charge it BOTH ways. For example, once from Calypso to Arkadia and once to get back to Calypso from Arkadia.

    But make no mistake, as the potential for ped income is virtually limitless and is lucrative... no really lucrative...not like Frank lucrative....by design flaw of MA, it will be a full time job. At the end of the shift the courier will wait for changeout to occur, and that crew set will meet somewhere to divvy up the loot for that period between courier, crew and captain.

    The loot can be decided upon vestment into the program or whatever, but I recommend the 40%/60% system.

    The loot recieved from pirate looting, whether PC, or NPC will be divvyed among the crew and captain.

    Understand that most of this 8 hour shift will be in maintaining a presence. The presence that if you want to travel safely, the Hanger Gangers Union (just some name I thought up) will gladly, and safely escort you and your thousands of ped for a price. In sheer numbers they will keep you safe from the ubers that want to loot you and your profitable material you are transporting.

    Believe me, if I could get the go ahead to deposit for the resources I need for this, I would set it all up myself. But it is considerable as Spacecraft are still stupidly expensive in MU. I couldn't afford the entire setup, I would need to get a siazble loan. But effectively this allows you to own space travel 24/7.

    Because of the 'dynamic' world MA offers, if they changed it, although perfectly legal for them to do so, would lose a lot of respect and viability from potential and current investors, if they changed it just because someone besides them was profiting. So you have them by the ballz so to speak by doing this, they can niether intervene, nor change without great damage to their reputation on all levels.

    The 70 or so hangar owners would be able to get the funds together to do this with probably no difficulty, as I assume the resource capability of 70 people is far greater than my own.

    Eventually you can add other ships and promote people, or add people to the union for other aspects, as in mining resources for m.ship tier upgrades, but you must always think of it as a union, and your primary objective is to maintain order and take your fees for space flight and offer safe passage.

    Should MA changes the rules on space, they will no doubt quickly make hangars a large part of docking and travelling, and if you are not en-route to a hanger with a warp engine on your ship, you are vulnerable to lootable pvp.

    If some of you cannot wrap your head around this, try to. Although in this post I have left it extremely general, I have every last little detail worked out, and most emergency scenarios accounted for and the proceedure for them. Of course I am not going to put it all into this post, but for the rest of the critical details, well... we'll just say they're for sale.

    This will work, and I have even verified by the lack of response to my support ticket to MA about it that they would do nothing. They probably are even embarressed to identify it as a possibility for it existing, because it was a HUGE oversight when they developed it.

    But the biggest thing that should drive the hangar owner's to do this, is that if you don't do it, someone else will. I am a fair guy, but I am here to make money, if I see an investment opportunity, I do it, yeild the return, and look for the next.

    If I had someone in real life willing to invest in my idea, and put me in charge of it, you bet I would do it. It's not a power trip, not about having control, it's just about making money. Nothing personal at all. If I can loot some uber for 10K coming back from Arkadia with some HOF's, maybe an ATH well guess what...? I would not hesitate to pull that trigger for an instant, if the passage fee was not paid. Kind of stupid NOT to pay for both passage and protection in one low price, especially when carrying that much material. I believe most will see it that way, and welcome the protection end of the passage fee.

    Don't fret about the lack of space travel right now, you cannot gauge that as accurate, the plan listed above will increase space travel 10 fold. Remeber, I am not MA, I (well I like to think) am a smart investor, and an even smarter tactician. Even my real life job revolves around making the improbable profitable by thinking outside the box.

    Just think, I go to Arkadia for say Ospra mining, I pay 40 ped to get there from Calypso. I get loaded up with Ospra, several tens of thousands ingots worth, and pay 40 ped to come back to Calypso. Okay so I have paid 80 ped for an escort each way, my MU on Ospra is gonna be around 300% uh... ya, what part of this isn't worth it? I sacrifice less than 5% of my MU on ten thousand ingots safely transported and sold. Which in turn, allows the gears of the crafting mechanism to run, right back into the cycle of making equipment, which I use for various things, or build myself a new spacecraft, gun, etc.

    People will still try and complain about it... it is human nature. Ignore it. You bitch about your power bill every month right? Or .002 cent increases to each KW... but you still pay it right? ...Of course.

    I have one thing that MA doesnt have anymore. Ingenuity. They can change the aspect of EU any way they see fit, but it really doesn't matter, there will always be a way to profit. Profit in EU takes two things.... Willingness to do what others aren't, and careful planning and paitence. Luck has little to do with it, if nothing. Its like playing poker. There is a technique, luck really plays a very small part, and usually the luck you worry about is the unthinkable bad luck.

    I have certain things that I am not paitent enough for in EU, but I also understand what I give up by not doing it, and either make adjustments accordingly to reduce those losses to as little as possible, or I make other arrangements, so at least I get back an even return.

    You have to think and work to profit at this platform. It is not a get rich quick thing. MA just wants you to believe that so you will put more money into it. The added element of 'fun' to it all is that MA has a horrid reputation that anytime someone besides them starts showing considerable profit margins, they have to go and change the platform.

    I don't know why anyone would even bother to listen to any official at MA anymore, because obviously your hangars aren't lucrative, going out and killing shinkiba is FAR more lucrative than your hangers have been in a long time. This also should of dawned on you hangar owners a while ago as well.

    The officals at MA give what is called a 'Dog and Pony' to their big depositors. This is to keep them enticed and depositing in anticipation. That is what the space tours were all about. Don't believe me? What happened to the Slepnir prices after MA gave tours of space and announced that space thrusters could be attached to slepnirs to make them space capable....? Think real hard... ya... thats right... their price doubled, and kept rising. Then space was a total flop. Well, they have your money... what do you have? A REALLY REALLY expensive slepnir.

    My final point in all this is, end the talking about it, and do something to profit off of MA's changes instead of sitting around and waiting for a handout that may or may not ever come. I cannot believe that investors that have deposited what these hangar owners have would just sit around and wait and whine at MA.

    Your 'investment' back in 2003 is worth less than what some investors trade per stock share, really it is. (Unless it was 150K USD, and then by any measure that was way too much) But it is all in perspective. If it was your nest egg that you deposited, well it sucks, but you have to do something to reclaim the money, you have to call the venture closed, either shove it far down in your portfolio, and take on a new one, or try to sell it off for what you can and cull your losses. I do hope that no one actually invested all of their assests/portfolio into this back in the day, because that would just be an unwise investement move in general. But to each their own.

    Like I said, the inner working details of this plan are available for sale to anyone that decides to read this, but I want serious offers only. I am so sure it works, that after I am paid for revealing how it needs to be set up internally, I will even join up for whatever position you want me in. (Haha sounds dirty... except for a m.ship captain, I don't have one of those....yet. I would think I would be most effective as a courier, I have been told I am gifted in the art of speech and communication with those that are less than... receiving.)

    That's all I have, be sure to read it all before deciding to flame on here or in Calypso, I really don't like having to ignore people just because they like to show off they are intelligent enough to turn on their computer and bang out some words on a keyboard that are akin to a drunk trying to hold a conversation with a bathroom toliet stall.

    This does warrant serious discussion and I understand. Please though, do not try and implement this without the other details. I have left some very serious details of this out, and if some group were to try, they would be very pissed off when it failed, and the m.ship was destroyed, and everyone looted. There are certain elements that have to be adhered to, and without knowing what those are, it's like trying to predict which mob will ATH next. You can sometimes pick it out, but how often do you act on it?

    See you all on Calypso.
  4. Guys come on , the deed of hangar it's how much? 1 pec? isnt MA who fixed the price you paid, you fixed that price and rise the price, I remeber many years ago for long time hangar worth 6k peds but then some guys belived that worth 60k peds and paid . You made that price not MA , so why you ask MA now to low game development for "saving" your investment amount that they never asked or fixed?
  5. and in the other way think like this: motherships to be efficiently they will need to wait maby 20-30 passagers to make a travel wich may take alot time that customers dont have to wait , so you can easily and fast do a 4 ppl travel . your advantage
  6. Hi there Shaman

    What hangar owners paid an large sum of peds for was a Viable Business.
    The prices they paid were very justified being a active hangar pilot in the past
    I can verify this.

    But what has happened now is that Viable Business has been completely
    eradicated, hence the disappointment and distress. Not only has the worth
    of the hangar(which btw is bugged) gone down to around 10k peds but not our old services
    are far inferior to that of a quad fighter offering flights.

    There is thousands of VTOLs and there is over 300+ fighters and over 1000
    (L) thrusters so far.

    If taking away a Viable Business wasn't enough they have also Stolen
    2500PED from hangar owners. (That is a direct violation of their own EULA)

    Then there is the slap in the face MA expecting us to pay them more after
    they have stolen from us.

    Just my view point on the matter.

    Thank You,
  7. narfi

    narfi Lost

    I would like to purchase your Privateer+Unlimited Thruster+Hanger deed for 10kped, when can we meet?


    (It is unfortunate that the business potential for your investment 'appears' to have been reduced for 'now,' but you should be honest in your arguments or you will get called on it)
  8. In fact the last price for a hangar before mindark make the withdrawal was 200Kp, when there was one planet just before Cryengine 2. The intermediate price before the arrival of Motherships was 150Kp with 4 planets. Currently the values ​​and profitability for the following items are unknown :

    - space thruster unlimited
    - privateers unlimited
    - hangars unlimited
    - motherships unlimited
    - quad wing interceptor unlimited

    The market economy is being launched with injections of space thrusters limited and motherships. In my view the period for setting minimum prices of these items has not arrived yet. Mindark continued development of space and the universe. I think we'll see after the summer prices to reposition. There are still two important VU before seen view pricing position. The market is undergoing restructuring currently, i guess.

  9. Hi Narfi

    I have no interest selling it at its current worth, but I'll keep a eye out for you.
    My estimate was my own opinion and was for the hangar building by itself btw.

    About honesty I've always been honest even if I end up hurting myself in the
  10. What is TT Value? Just curious.
  11. Hello Alphageek, it is a pleasure to meet you. It's normal that you ask this question after a few days of play, all beginners have difficulty reading the value of the estate deed in Entropia. So i'll take a few seconds explain to you so you can evolve quickly in Entropia.

    An estate deed has no value TT in fact : 0 ped = HANGAR = LAND = SPACESHIPS = FOMA / CND = CP = BANK = SHOP = FLAT = HOUSE = PLANET. So, when MindArk will bankrupt, all items of the universe have exactly the same value : nothing

    See you soon my friend :)
  12. Yeah, thanks. I'm such a noob.
  13. narfi

    narfi Lost

    That is exactly the point I was making, you are contradicting yourself.
    As a buyer I can not purchase that package for 10k ped even though I would be willing to pay it.
    There are plenty of those packages in the game, therefore since with a multitude of them and none avaliable to someone with the cash willing to pay, they are obviously worth more than 10k.

    Truth is I wouldn't be able to buy that package for 50k, both you and I know that.
    Truth is that the current market value (what people are actually willing to pay) is still over 60k ped.
    Many have argued that this is about what they should have been valued at before, I don't know, but I think it is a fair estimate for now. (they should never have sold for 200k, and that was the mistake of the buyers, not of MA or any of the rest of the participants in the universe)

    Don't claim that market value is 10k when you know that you could sell it today for more, that is intentional dishonesty no matter how much you say it isn't.
    Sure maybe the hanger itself is worth 10k, but thats not what you have, you have all 3 parts and that is what the discussion was about. Don't compare apples with tennis balls.

    Osiris, you are also hurting the opinion people have of hanger owners when you are condescending and insulting.
    From your post there people can draw two conclusions.
    1. You yourself are a noob and don't know the more vocal players and societies in this universe.
    2. You are intentionally insulting and condescending.

    Either way you hurt yourself.

    Get back to facts and go soley on them and you have an argument that may be worth backing, otherwise you are obviously in the wrong and people will be against you.

    MA sold hangers for x amount of ped.
    Players sold hangers for X + X amount of ped.
    Some players bought hangers for X * X amount of ped.

    MA is responsible for providing X amount of usability and unique purpose for them.
    Some players want X + X amount of usability and unique purpose for them.
    Some players want X * X amount of usability and unique purpose for them.

    MA has provided X amount of usability and unique purpose for them.
    MA has provided X - Y amount of usability and unique purpose to other players.
    MA has provided X / Y amount of usability and unique purpose to other players.
    MA has provided X + Z amount of usability and unique purpose to other players.

    Basically you are pissed off because you bought a Mod Merc for an inflated price, and now someone with less skills than you can use an unlimited X5.

    I felt bad for you guys before, but the more i see posted the more I think that MA is doing the right thing, and you are in the wrong.

    In summery,
    It is stupid to insult or lie when trying to persuade the public to your point of view.

  14. Hello Narfi, its a pleasure to meet you. I'm sorry that you're thought i speak to you before. In fact the message you were talking about was for another friend. This error on your part is not too serious, it can happen to anyone, no one is perfect. I understand that you are angry against the owners of hangars and that you are defending the owners of planets and Mindark. You're quite right to defend Mindark rather than the players. You're quite right to feel hatred against the owners of lands and hangars. But i'm sorry, i do not understand what the purpose of your approach and why you have this attitude insulting to me. I do not understand your suffering. I sincerely hope that your problems will work out and that things will go better for you in the future. If you need help and solidarity, we are here every day.

    friendly :)
  15. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Osiris, I know you addressed Alphageek.
    You called him a new player and treated him poorly as though he knew nothing.
    He is not a new player, and he is from a known society.

    I have no anger, I enjoy the game and I like what I see as the potential for it in the future.
    I have no problems, and it is confusing that you think so, since it is you that are upset with the way the game is developing and yet you accuse me of anger?

    I have enjoyed every planet in this game, and I enjoy space as well. It is fun and it is good.


    (ps. it is possible that English is not your first language even though you speak it very well. If this is the case then the tone in which you wrote may not have been the way you intended. If this is the case, then just take what I said as an explanation as to why it could be offensive even though you use the words 'friend' and 'friendly' in it.)
  16. Hello again Narfi. I understand your need to speak for the other players. Some people have this need. In my situation, i will answer directly to the speaker who speaks to me if i feel the need. Our friend asked a technical question in the community. The community has answered his question to get him the help he needed. I really enjoyed appreciation and understanding of its response following the help we could provide it. However, i am not sure that you defend his seniority makes him service (...) To answer you about the brackets : I speak better computer, mathematics and philosophy as Russian and Japanese. Sometimes i make mistakes and it's very hard for me, i am a human, not a robot. Tolerance is valuable and i thank you for this spirit of solidarity. I am delighted that finally you do not suffer as much as you might think and you do not be so angry it against the owners of hangars and lands.

    To return to the topic : I may be wrong, but i truly believe that if Mindark and Partners steal the owners of hangars or any other player, if they are officially declared as crooks and thieves: it will be very bad for the entire Ummah.

    friendly :)

  17. memory / There is a long time ...​

  18. Things are moving but the connection between the hangars and the universe is not yet done.​
    New system of interplanetary transport of the universe:​
  19. 9 years later...

    Any update on this matter ? *lol*
  20. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Explorer

    Stop laughing, not funny :-)

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