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TIERING - Is It Worth It? - (Feedback Thread)

Discussion in 'General Entropia Universe Discussion' started by MindStar9, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    It's that time again to get the pulse of the community.


    As I did with my Vehicles article in the launch issue of the EntropiaTimes magazine, I now want to solicit feedback from the community regarding the tiering system.

    There are certainly comments all over the forums in different threads, but I would like to get a collective offering in this thread with contributors responding to the following questions. As with the vehicles article, your comments, and/or any photos offered to identify specifics (which would be nice to have if available) may be used in the tiering article (with full credit) which will be published in the December issue of the EntropiaTimes magazine. Taking time to participate in this feedback is appreciated.

    Side Note ... this thread will also appear at the Planet Calypso Forum, so please do not respond at both places - thank you!


    THIS THREAD WILL REMAIN OPEN FOR CONTRIBUTIONS UNTIL 23:59 GAME TIME - WED - NOV 3RD


    Copy and paste (do not quote) the following questions into a new post and respond after each question.
    (read each question through first for specifics so that you are not duplicating information)


    ========================================


    1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?



    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?



    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?



    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?



    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?



    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?



    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?



    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?



    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article?


    ========================================


    Thank you in advance to those who take the time to participate in this feedback effort. :thumbup:
     
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  2. leeloo

    leeloo cOloRmAnIaC

    1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?

    Cool, we can improve our most beloved weapons

    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?

    That you are free to use it - or not



    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?

    That you need the same item again to do it for UL stuff

    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?

    the consumption of the enhancers should be more stable/clear

    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?

    no. just the L stuff I am using but never put enhancers on them because of the instability in enhancer consumption


    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?

    no

    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?

    rate 3 (rather bad) because of the problems, 1. it is taking too much ingredients to tier UL stuff, 2. you need a second item for UL stuff, 3. takes too long to tier L stuff before it breaks, 4. enhancers used up too instable/unpredictable

    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?

    yes

    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article?

    yes but there are no pictures :D
     
  3. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?

    Ahh, another method from MA to drain my PEDcard

    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?

    The ability to improve highend weapons. It's worthless for lower weapons. One should buy the next better weapon instead of tiering the low one.

    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?

    That it would be another method from MA to drain my PEDcard if I ever would use it.

    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?

    I usually don't use L-items (except some swords and vehicles). The enhancers are a kind of L-item. They break randomly. I would make them a regular L-item. The tiering process for UL items needs a second item wich is in danger to get lost. That should be changed.

    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?

    I tiered up one of my Katsuichi Determinations (0.9--->1.0). Just for testing it. The enhancer broke after 15 minutes hunting. I decided to not making a second attempt.

    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?

    No.

    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?

    I rate it 10. Only reason is: I can use Genesis Rainbow Swords. There is no better sword in game as far as I know. Now I will be able to make my own Imp Rainbow ;-)

    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?

    Yes

    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article?

    no photos submitted
     
  4. 1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?
    I thought that the concept was interesting and had potential but my impression was that it was going to be expensive if you wanted to tier all your items.

    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?
    That it is a preference, you can leave your unlimited items at 0.9 without any problem but any items that are tiered can utilise enhancers if you want, it is not a requirement. Additionaly you can remove any enhancers if/when you feel they are not needed.

    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?
    Additonal peds can get tied up in the storage of all the new stackables and there is the possiblity of losing a potentially expensive duplicate item during the process.

    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?
    Enhancers should decay at a set measurable rate when used.

    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?
    Nope only L items

    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?
    No

    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?
    The possibility to enhance/customise to your own requirements is nice but some improvements could be made so i would give it a 6

    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?
    Yes

    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article?
    Yes
     
  5. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?

    Cool. I loved the ability to "personalize" or boost items as far back as Diablo 2, and having seen it more recently in LOTRO, it really seemed like a great addition.

    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?

    A way to somehow improve usability of your items.

    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?

    [STRIKE]The fact that it introduced yet another gambling factor to the game. [/STRIKE]

    The only thing I currently dislike about the nerf is the disadvantage for people who invested heavily into the tiering system before.

    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?

    Remove the gambling factor involving the same item. For low level stuff that is not a problem, but I refuse to tier up my higher level stuff using this system. I would also remove the total random factor involved in the tiering components for something more predictable. The system is pretty useless as it is.

    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?

    Sure. I tiered up a few Opalos and some of my Shogun armour. I might look at some other items at a point as well, but not until I manage to improve my successrate quite a bit. I have yet to add any tiering enhancers, though. I merely tiered those items up as practise, and to be able to get them to tier up further than 0.9. I'm not really looking to add anything to it, just tiering it up further.

    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?

    No. My chance of success is way too low.

    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?

    A 9 for the idea, and 2 for execution and implementation of it. See above. The gambling is what really ticks me off. It could be a very useful feature, but it the way it was implemented is morally corrupt.

    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?

    Sure.

    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article?

    N/A
     
  6. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Thanks for the input so far, it's really appreciated, and just what I need. The candid and genuine comments about a system that affects our game play (IMO) is important for the developers to hear, and hopefully they will take it into consideration. Hopefully being the operative word. :bigsmile:
     
  7. narfi

    narfi Lost

    1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?
    That it was a fun idea for the rich to play with untill it became more viable in cost for the average player. I loved merp hunting at a guaranteed profit on blazers :P


    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?
    Higher dmg/sec at my level is alot of fun when I want to hunt bigger mobs. (Ive only really used dmg and accuracy enhancers)


    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?
    the potential to loose expensive items




    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?
    Make the TT vs consumption ratio of enhansers lower to allow for the markets to determine the use more than the tt.



    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?
    I have tired a couple of my own tt fists and gremlin pieces personally since it was low risk and skills.
    I had Auktuma tier my unlimited Genesis Stingury and took advantage of his insurance offer to eliminate any risk on my part.


    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?
    no, I dont have enough skills to feel justified in taking anyone's money for it.


    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?
    id rate it an 8 since its got alot of posotive advantages but no one is forced to use them

    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?
    sure


    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article?
    yes but you have to photoshop out all the blemishes and age spots first :P
     
  8. Thorn

    Thorn Proud CND Baby

    1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?
    Great another money pit.


    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?
    Ability to upgrade gear without the cost normally associated for mid level players.


    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?
    Possibility to lose items, not enough benefit in relation to cost including needing enhancers for tiering to work. Way too long to recoup cost on some items.


    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?
    Can`t think of any at the moment.


    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?
    Yes. I tiered my OF-105, FAP 2350 myself and a Z25 ore finder if you count limited items.


    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?
    No but I know someone who does.

    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?
    I have to rate it a 5 as I`, still feeling it out.


    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?
    Yes.


    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article?
    Yes.
     
  9. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    By chance everybody has heard about Auktuma's charity service? Go to Aloode at 19:00 MA time (?) ... not sure about the time. Auktuma made a thread at EF about his charity service
     
  10. 1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?

    Sweet! I can use my favorite UL weapons again


    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?

    Ability to improve the performance of UL weapons

    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?

    Tiering more then level 1 one takes a qualified person for success. Also the materials used for FAPs and such are a bit much.

    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?

    As stated before--fix the enhancers! I can do a run and lose four enhancers one time and the next I will lose none.

    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?

    Yes! Jester D-1 (Tier 1) Justifier MK II (Tier 2) and Ghost Harness (Tier 1) True Faith (Tier 2). I like the tiered items and enjoy the enhancers. With the weapons I can choose between DMG enhancer or efficiency enhancer depending on what I hunt.

    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?

    Nope.

    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?

    Could be improved a bit. Also make it a bit more beneficial for UL to get tiered past 3.

    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?

    Sure

    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article? kk
     
  11. 1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?

    Wohoo, some more markup to be looted!

    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?

    Markup of the ingredients, and better equipment to use

    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?

    nothing, only that there is not a lot of knowledge about how everything works, so hard to tell the benefits of tiering sometimes.

    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?

    give ouy more information

    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?

    Tiered some stuff for myself, found it funny you can profit on it thanks to metal residue markups

    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?

    Nope.

    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?

    7, still a lot of new types enhancers can be made

    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?

    Sure


    Overall you are making questions about tiering while iI feel tiering is just siomething you do so you can be able to use enhancers. It's like asking how a car is made when people want to know who won the race.

    Tiering is only worth it if the enhancers give enough benefits. For example iyou can tier a tt finder to tier 10 and fill it with depth enhancers but it still have less depth then an of-105. So tiering is worth it if you do it on the right items with the right enhancers. (in general you can say the better the item untiered the more it will benefit from getting tiered).
     
  12. Neuromancer

    Neuromancer Brainstormers Official Brain Glue

    1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?

    First reaction was "Wow! I'm going to tier up all my gear and kick some butt". Ped card said "hey, wait a minute".

    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?

    The positive side for me is that it has indefinitely postponed any major gear upgrade, particularly for my pistols. I also like the flexibility of being able to use enhancers or not depending on the hunt. Usually I forget the enhancers are on though.

    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?

    There are a lot of negatives. Random enhancer decay has been mentioned above, also the cost of trying to find secondaries. The random tier upgrade rate is also troublesome. I have shot hundreds of ped of ammo on my EWE40 and it hasn't moved from 2.2. The upgrade rates give a whole new meaning to "dynamic".

    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?

    It would be very nice to have the promised non-item secondary enabled. It is getting hard to find secondaries for unusual items.

    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?

    Most of my gear is UL. My vigi and grem is all +1.0 or close enough. I've tiered EWE40s, A&P Freedom, Marber Echo ME, Frean Delta, and so on in guns. Also OF-105 and EMK-2600. Thanks Tzepu for help with some of the armor tiering. At first I had enhancers on everything, and I'm sure I made a few crafters happy. Recently though the enhancers are only weapon damage on the pistols and range on the 105 finder.

    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?

    No. I have tiered a few items for soc members but nothing serious. Level 10.5 tier profession.

    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?

    Five out of 10. I would like to see tiering on refiners and MF chips. For UL armor and guns I feel the tier rate numbers are pretty much meaningless. The item will go from 1.6 to 1.7 when it feels like it.

    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?

    Yes

    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article?

    Yes
     
  13. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Thank you everyone for your responses, this is really helpful. This should be an interesting article about yet another controversial system in our universe. You will all find some of your comments in the article with full credit. ;)

    I love this community BIG time! :grouphug:
     
  14. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    In light of the updated Tiering System ... would those who have contributed to this feedback thread please edit their posts and add additional thoughts about the new updated system. This would be helpful to include in the article I'm writing.

    Thank you! :)
     
  15. Well i'm still downloading the update but my first thought is that i will tier some more stuff that i didn't date to before. And that people will use more enhancers then before (which is good for me as a crafter, and good for MU of the ingredients).

    I never like changes to systems i understand, but changes usually provide opportunities too.
    Time will tell though if it really is good for all of us.
     
  16. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Explorer

    The focus of the article I think would need to change.

    Changed to one of how people who had invested thousands of peds into the tiering system lost everything within a matter of seconds. How MA have "betrayed" the users of the system they designed for them to be used.

    While the majority would be happy about the new system because they either didn't use it or didn't invest so much into it. The ones who did invest into it are not only "betrayed" by MA but by the community as well by blaming the users rather than the makers...
    (only need to see the thread on pcf to see this)
     
  17. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Thanks for the info Ace ... appreciated. ;)
     
  18. 1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?

    I thought the economic ingame will be improved

    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?

    -It create opportunities for new players to gather ingrediences and tier up TT gears to sell , extra work or job opportunities
    -the tiering system has potential to give a single weapon/tool more flexibility. like a swissarmy knife .

    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?

    -Some far current system hasnt been easy/fair toward the general players.

    -It has a potential to be a hard-to-understand-money-trap-thing, a extra risk to loose money . Like those financial deritivatives ( interest rates, mortages, closures... bad things like those)
    I take comfort from Michael Moore's words that those things are not made for the general public to understand...


    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?

    I dare not do anything, it seems the more changes or adaptation the more potential risks it brings.

    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?

    MF 104 tier 2. I havent lost or gain much, it was fun at the time to try something new, within my budget.

    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?

    No

    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?

    3, it is still a dangerous feature to loose one's money, of course the eco players will be smart enough to benefite from this feature, but toward the general players, I think it is an extra risk,
    after the new VU , I may it a 6 , because it seems to be more balanced now. But the sudden change did put the previous tier upgraders to a huge disavantage, even unfair.
    So things changes, some get better , some worser. So in the light of potential future changes of the system... I say it is a 3 .


    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?

    yes

    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article?

    no
     
  19. Neuromancer

    Neuromancer Brainstormers Official Brain Glue

    I read the PCF thread "should there be compensation" and in my opinion I would say "no." I would also disagree with the term "betrayal". Betrayal implies some sort of plan in place to intentionally damage a person or group. In my 3 1/2 years in game I have not seen any evidence that MA is working on a long term plan for anything in terms of game mechanics or balancing.

    Tiering was - and still is - optional. People who gambled with uber gear under the old system have been around long enough to know how MA works, and that a 98% chance to save the secondary was just another dynamic number. Having said that, I lost a few items, mainly vigi thighs (2 clicks in a row the secondary was lost), but I can't imagine the gut wrenching loss of some rare item.
     
  20. 1 - What were your initial thoughts when the tiering system was first introduced?
    First I thought "great, enhancing". Then I saw how it was implemented, and I was quite shocked how difficult it is and expensive, and how great risk was involved, compared to, say simple systems like in WoW. Also it made me puzzled to think what would the real benefit be when enhancers would break regularly. I thought that I would propably never tier anything that has even some value, as the risk seemed so great for player with budget like me. (Now situation is of course slightly different, I will definitely tier especially my more valuable items.)


    2 - What would you consider to be the POSITIVE side of tiering?
    I can adjust the item somewhat according to my likes, be it range, or maybe damage, or depth, or search radius. There is choice.

    3 - What would you consider to be the NEGATIVE side of tiering?
    Presently not really much. No on e forces me to do it. But I may do it. Only negative for end-user is really price of good enhancers.

    4 - Is there anything you would do different to make the tiering system more efficient?
    Presently I think its fine. May be that the cost of high level items high tiers is way too high, but that my opinion is based on hearsay.

    5 - Have you had an item tiered? - If so, what item(s), and what were your experiences/benefits?
    Few Opalos just for experimenting, Ek-2600 which I now plan to become a very higly tiered fap. FF4400, for increased tagging range. TT drill for increases efficiency. Now I can increase Fap's healing power, exactly as I wanted, it may one day become a good emergency fap (unless I decide/can get a better one some day). Weapon range is as expected. TT drill is bit faster for the small claims, as wanted. No bad experiences.

    6 - Do you provide a tiering service? - If so, how is it working for you, and what is your rate of success?
    No.

    7 - Overall, how would you rate the tiering system on a scale of 1-10, and why?
    8 - works as intended, not giving more because 1) price of tiering, and 2) breaking enhancers.

    8 - Do you give permission to use your comments in a magazine article?
    Yes.

    9 - Do you give permission to use any photos submitted in a magazine article?
    Yes.
     

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