The new forum rep system implemented by EP is not a good idea

Discussion in 'About EntropiaPlanets' started by Magyar, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. I'm sure some folks will quickly respond that I don't think its a good idea because I'm going to get neg repped to all hell. Let me deal with that first: I don't care what a bunch of folks on the internet think about me. I'm quite secure in who I am and don't need your approval. So neg rep away! Have we cleared that up? Great. Thanks. Lets move on now.

    But reputations are awesome, you can see who you can trust and who you cant!

    Untrue. You can see who is popular and who is not. This has nothing to do with trustworthiness. Lets not forget that an anonymous account created with the sole purpose of bashing another individual was given positive reputation over on "the other forum" where a reputation system is used. People cant be trusted to rep for the right reasons. Its a system that will be abused.

    [​IMG]

    But I want to show people how good I am. Ive earned acclaim!

    Really? Then people will see that based on your post quality and post content. A reputation bar is nothing short of an e-peen.

    But Entropia Forum has a rep bar! We have to compete!


    Entropia Forum is also a popularity contest. There's very little place for constructive opinions there. Its either say whats popular or get the f--- out of dodge! Compete with them. Dont become them. Offer a different experience.

    But I want to be able to tell my friend they've done a good job, or tell someone else they didn't do a good job!

    So tell them. Nobody is stopping you. Why do you need a mechanic to assist you in doing so. Just do it.

    But if you're an asshole the world deserves to know!

    Trust me, they'll know regardless. People who don't care about others approval tend to post as if that approval does not matter. They are liberal in their opinions, both good and bad, and criticisms. The problem with a reputation bar is that the bar is looked at first, and the post second. The asshole may in fact be a total douchebag, but does that make their opinion less correct? Nah. It just means they are not playing a political game.

    But I'm nice! I want the reward.

    Whats so nice about wanting a reward for good behavior? That's not nice at all. That's selfish, petty, and to be honest its pretty lame. Good behavior is its own reward.

    Somebody tell me why a reputation bar is actually a good and productive thing, and why we need one. IMO it just takes us one step closer to becoming the exact type of popularity contest many of us fled or left in disgust. I welcome opinions to the contrary. Perhaps I am wrong. Otherwise my opinion stands, valuable or not! ;)

    Honestly the internet should be looked at alot like the lyrics of this song:

    http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2014263/v2150020
     
  2. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Thanks for your post. Our rep system has been configured differently than the one on EF, and we are not here to compete with EF in any way. Like you said, we offer a different experience...
     
  3. I hope theres some difference to the reputation system. The vBulletin reputation plugin at heart is a very simple mathematical plugin. It adds and subtracts and assigns ranks and titles accordingly. It also allows users to comment on each others posts.

    vBulletin themselves state that the rep system is potentially divisive, and great care should be made before enabling it. I think thats a very tactful way of saying that its troll bait, but thats just my interpretation! People can and will, in my experience, use these types of tools to be vindictive towards other users.

    Anyway its your board, do what you want with it. I removed this feature from my boards after considering the implications of guild members offering reputation to each other! Though the folks at EP are not members of the same guild, we are members of the same community. Currying each others favor for internet points and posting hurtful comments only other users can see via the reputation system is something that I feel destroys a vibrant community and replaces it with a clique mentality. I felt that if I didnt speak out and at least say my piece I would have no right to be upset if things in fact turned out poorly due to the system.

    In short --- this was meant as a constructive criticism. Not a rant.

    ** Edit - Seems like this rep system has always been there? I just checked my own and theres some history I never knew existed, and most of its good (thanks folks)! Seems like the new skin just raised my personal awareness of it. While I thank those who gave me well wishes I still feel the rep tool is a very dangerous thing to have. IMO a mechanism to add to the rep of various posts is much more constructive than a mechanism that damns a user. It also helps people avoid drama topics if they dont want to read that stuff! Sorry folks its just how I feel!
     
  4. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    I'm aware there are negative sides to it, and that it can be abused. I've certainly not passed that opportunity myself in the past.

    Otoh, i do think that generally speaking, it can be a very positive thing as well., and i do encourage people who feel it is being abused to let me know about such cases.

    But yeah, the rep system has been emabled since day 1 here. It just was intentionally set so rep grows slowly in order to discourage abuse of it.
     
  5. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Once again Magyar ... you have stimulated the purple matter ... and for those of you going into left field as a result of my comment, I clarified what was stimulated. :bigsmile:

    Now ... I actually couldn't agree more with your critical thinking and assessment, but I can see both sides. Here at EP I have the rep indicator shut off, because I don't feel that it's something that I need to display. If someone appreciates something I post and wants to give positive rep along with a comment about it, then it's appreciated, but not something I need. I would much prefer learning what something thinks as a (constructive) public post.

    With regard to EF, I will use myself as an example. I'm currently sitting in Chair 1 in the reputation department at EF, but I'm very pleased that the majority of my rep points are a result of what I have provided the community over 5+ years, and it all started in the Summer of 2005 when I began my picture storytelling. The EU community as a whole has appreciated my writing over the years such as the Wednesday's Who's Who player profiles, and other articles and news stories, or special activities that may have been associated with MSR.

    I also led a lot of JSA activities that catered to new players and helping them get started with such events as annual Xmas giveaways (and throughout the year) being posted at EF, so it comes from a lot of places. It's also a result of my constructive posting (based on rep comments), even in my love/hate moments of frustration related to MA/FPC, so there are a lot of variables that come into play when we talk about where the rep points come from.

    I have had my share of -reps at EF from trolls and bullies, and those who just like to harass my purple ass now and then, but also those who once in a blue moon gave a constructive reason for doing so. I agree with you Magyar, that there is great potential for abuse, and I think maybe many of us have been on the receiving end of this type of behavior, but again ... it does not define who we are and should not be used (or utilized) as a barometer as such to indicate good or bad.

    It's a subjective process, and while it's nice to learn what people think about your posting and/or activities, it can also get quite personal and disruptive. I also agree that it can be deceptive and have the potential for damaging a community environment. We've seen how a mob mentality can generate rather quickly based on what might be the most popular thinking at the time.

    Perception is real and valid for each person, but rarely accurate, and I actually take my students through some exercises to prove this, and it gives them a whole new perspective. I can see the benefit of having a rep system, but I can also see how non-beneficial it can be. l think what's important here since we do have a rep system in place, is to do what has been suggested by our Admin and report any disruption or abuse of the system for him to take care of ... seems fair to me. :)

    And if you didn't get my position on the rep system based on what is posted above, I'm more in favor of not having a rep system, and ... don't apologize for your opinion by saying ... "Sorry folks, it's just how I feel!!" ... I for one appreciated your offering, and in fact agree with it more than I don't. We all out ourselves so to speak, by the way we post, good or bad, and that should be sufficient enough to respond to ... hopefully in a constructive manner.

    Oh, and btw ... I loved the video ... so much so I'm adding it to the MSR jukebox. :headbang:



    .
     
  6. Oh you can turn off the Rep bar? Awesome. I'll have to play with that a bit. Either that or tempt fate and proudly display my reds. The last makes me smile a bit, sure, but I wont go that route. Why? Well, to be honest fighting all the time is just as boring as not saying anything at all! Mainly I like to provoke thought, I dont really care what direction it takes, just that actual, constructive thought is happening!

    Harvey Danger has been stuck in my head for the past few weeks, even though I probably havnt heard that song audibly since 1997 or thereabouts! Funny how that works. Im going to tune in. I added your station and AHR to my winamp yesterday. Good stuff so far, I must say. And the interviews on AHR are pretty cool too. One of these days I'll get my girlfriends station launched for her... but getting Darwin Streaming server to run at my colo isnt quite as easy as I had originally thought and now I need to come up with a plan B.

    Im going to cut this short as Im starting to babble.
     
  7. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    And you do it so well ... provoke thought that is, and reminds me of a tactic I use with my students. I warn them ahead of time that a comment or question made by me doesn't necessarily mean it's my personal or professional opinion, or even something from research, but rather a means to stimulate discussion about the subject matter that we immerse ourselves in during 14 weeks together. It actually teaches them a lot about their cognitive process, not to mention the effectiveness of their communication skills.

    At any rate ... thank you for tuning in (to MSR) ... I am always adding new stuff to the 24/7 jukebox that plays, and will be more busy with that as soon as I finish my current EU project that has a deadline. AHR has great DJ's who play awesome music, and once in a while I get to catch a talk or discussion show which is always interesting.

    And just as an FYI ... MSR won't have DJ's with radio shows, I think AHR does a bang-up job of this, so I'm going to focus more on live broadcasting of community events, as well as other special activities, and get community members involved in some unique in-game projects through the EP Media Center, which I will be more focused on after this current project is completed.

    Sorry for the O/T there for a minute, but ... back to the rep system ... if you go to the User CP and click on General Settings on the left, it will give you an option to hide reputation. As I mentioned, mine is off. It doesn't matter to me whether people see it or not ... what matters is what they write in a public post in response to something I might have posted, or perhaps a PM to me where some have shared their thoughts and opinions. This kind of stuff I truly appreciate, no matter whether someone agrees with me or not.

    I'm with you on this Magyar ... like me or my posts or not, give me your genuine but constructive input, and then we have a discussion and something to work with.

    I love this community, even with the trolls and purple bashers at times, because it keeps me on my toes, and inspires me to not only elevate my critical thinking, but ... motivates some 2nd step mentality to remain vigilant and prepared.

    And take this as you (anyone) will ... I have never been anything other than genuine with this community for 5+ years, but ... I am also one never to think you have me figured out. That only means that I am an incredibly resourceful person, and I can be full of surprises. :bigsmile:
     
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