1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The "European Space Agency" (Game) - Final Report Executive Summary (2009/2010)

Discussion in 'General Entropia Universe Discussion' started by McCormick, Apr 12, 2015.

  1. MindArk planned doing a game/planet with the ESA in 2009/2010. We neve heard of it again.

    But I stumbled across this link today :

    https://blog.inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/201...-entropia-universe-and-european-space-agency/

    Did anyone ever sign that NDA to get the "full version" ? Remember, you are not allowed to talk about it. xD
    Probably useless to ask MA about it. ;P

    Then again it already says (not to be reposted publicly) so I might have done something wrong already ? xD

    Was trying to get in contact with "Joachim Fuchs", but I bet NDAs & Co. will prohibit it to get any further informations anyway.

    Lets wait & SEE.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. I'm wondering if the moonscape is based on actual topographical info on Europa, if not then it could be any moon anywhere.
     
  3. As this project probably died long ago, we will only know if someone leaks the "full" document. :p
     
  4. Probably got turned into Monria :)
     
    • Hussked Hussked x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Have you been to the Arctic on Rocktropia? From pictures I have seen from the space project and items found around that map, I think this is the same map MA gave to Neverdie.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. 8 years later, if you visit entropiaplatform.com, MA still uses this as advertisement, next to Compet and the VR president-scam-desaster :

    MMORPG and virtual world platform provider MindArk completes Online Games study contract for European Space Agency

    ESA 2017.

    http://www.entropiaplatform.com/

    ...and of course, no matter how often I tried to get in contact with ESA...I never even got an auto reply...nothing.
     
  7. Self sufficient financial model.... lol

    As for old m.a. stuff I think some parts of eula, tos, and website still talk about massive ads. M$ bought massive a long time back and cut m.a. out of it
    http://legal.entropiauniverse.com/legal/privacypolicy.xml
    Collaboration with other third parties

    The Entropia Universe incorporates technology of Massive Incorporated ("Massive") that enables certain In-World objects (e.g. advertising) to be temporarily uploaded to your pc or console and replaced In-World while connected online. As part of that process, no personally identifiable information about you is collected and only select non-personally identifiable information is temporarily logged. No logged information is used to determine any personally identifiable information about you. For full details follow this link.

    ....
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_Incorporated
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
    • Hussked Hussked x 1
  8. Wow...and lol...thanks mastermesh...thats...embarassing ;D
     
  9. I manged to start a conversation with the "Head of Software Systems Division" Joachim Fuchs.

    He talks about the study of the protoype attempt, to become a "serious game"...which never went past prototype-stage and did not offer any application possibilities, for the European Space Agency. He even sent me the PDF, which was available from that blog in post 1.

    I hope to hear more from him.


    Also there is a nice summary of who tried to get involved with this ESA-Education-Moon-Game back in 2012.
    Which would be :

    "Moon Bloom" by the Univeristy of Edingburgh School of Education (Based on the movie Avatar):
    http://atate.org/mscel/gbl/MoonBloom/

    "Moon World OpenSIM" (created within 2nd Life) by the "Wheeling Jesuit University" (West Virginia)
    http://atate.org/mscel/gbl/MoonWorld/moonworld.html

    https://blog.inf.ed.ac.uk/atate/2012/03/30/moon-bloom-the-legend-of-the-bloom-of-the-aligned-moons/

    "Orbiter" by Martin Schweiger :
    http://atate.org/mscel/gbl/Orbiter/Orbiter.pdf

    http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

    "Space Race Blast Off":
    http://atate.org/mscel/gbl/Space-Race-Blast-Off/

    And other, based on Avatar the movie, created with 2nd Life, games...a Star Trek Online Folder...and a Harry Potter Folder, leading to
    https://www.pottermore.com/

    ...and there are folders of the game AION and Word of Warcraft...

    There is also a nicely written text about "video game addicition".

    But best was the pic placed in the root folder : ;D

    mmorpg_addict.


    Everything is hosted on the site of "Austin Tate", University of Edinburgh.
    http://atate.org/

    Him Ill contact next.

    http://atate.org/
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Austin Tate send me a very friendly reply, that he was in charge of "developing an AI Planner used for the Arianne assembly, integration and test"...he collected all infos about this project, but he never was involved with Mindark. He never had access to the "final report"...

    Anyway, I proud to announce, that got my hands on the original Report today...and damn..121 pages...(original release had 8 pages)... :'D
    I wont say how I got it and who was involved, as its still subject of a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

    I neither want to spoil too much right now, nor do I just want to throw this 121 pages manifest at you.
    Ill release every yummy tidbit here, with even more infos and unreleased prototype graphics attached to them.


    Are you ready for the past ?


    The author of the whole wall of text, would be "Per A. Jonasson".
    A former Mindark employee (2009-2010) 1 year (special projects and pre-prduction)
    Game operations and support...later, Stand-In for the CEO...considering he left in 2010 already...

    per a jonasson.


    per a jonasson 2.

    Original linkedin site :

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/perajonasson/?originalSubdomain=se
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Last edited: May 8, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Estimated amount of users ?

    There is/was a special-client of Entropia Universe, that would connect to the "demonstration moon" only.
    It could be obtained from the "study-lead" in the Netherlands...if it would have ever arrived, that is.

    Ya, right, not even ESA got hands on this "demo"...even if they agreed with Mindark on handing it out months later to the ESA...the project died.


    This is where some interesting, estimated numbers showed up in the report for the 1st time.

    -2000 simultaneos users
    -45,000 active players (individuals)

    All on planet "Europe". Not only us Entropians, but schools, universities and...stuff...numbers our current planets can only dream of.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. COST FACTOR ?

    Do you wonder about the costs btw ?
    How many Euros would have had to be spend on the game, regarding, design, development, operation and player support ?


    They talk about the "Pre-Study costs"...€200k - €400k for about 6-7 months.

    • For a casual-oriented online game (social media in Flash, browser-based 3D game based on mid-range solution like Unity3D) the development costs likely end up in the range of €500k- €900k

    • For the first stage of the MMO game the development costs likely end up in the range of €1500k-€3000k

    • For the sandbox MMO stage the additional development costs likely end up in the range of €2000k-€5000k


    -Operations costs can be estimated to around €2-3 per simultaneous player and month.

    -If the game is to evolve over time costs will amount to at least €35000 per month, or about €1 per active player.

    -Summing up, the flexible costs for operating the game should be on the order of €120,000 per month, or €2.6 per active player and month.


    And the ESA budgets ?
    If there should be something left for gaming...and the game is actually considered as "good"..."sponsoring" would only occur annually...once per year. If something is left, that is.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. p.s.
    Im in contact with the Edu section of the ESA already, to get as much infos about the prototype as possible...but looking at these bad photoshops, fake fonts....done to the "official mock up" video with player voices...I dont think the prototype ever existed as client.exe...

    trade fonts.
     
  15. Today I got invited to a phone call, regarding this matter,
    with the study-leader of the European Space Agency, Pizarro De La Iglesia.

    Thats how communication works and I want to thank Mr. Iglesia for this opportunity !

    It was a nice discussion, with prepared questions. A very friendly person, who even took the time to search for the original paperwork, he had somewhere in his filing cabinet.

    Any questions ? Yes !

    Well, the 1st question got asked by Mr. Iglesia. He wondered, why I didnt get in contact with the developer himself,
    regarding this matter. So I explained the little communication problem, this company has since 10 years. ;)


    How did it all start, who approached ESA and what kind of contacts did he establish ?

    It was somekind of competition back then and various game-designers did get in contact with him.
    He told me that it all started with Per A. Jonasson, the guy of the final report.
    The guy who was with MindArk for 1 year (2009-2010) and the stand-in for the CEO.
    And his impression was, that Mr. Jonasson was just "brought in" by MindArk, for this single project.
    (And that I should contact him as well. I had to mention, that ex-MAs are usually hard to reach or never answer, if they dont get permissions by Mr. Simmonds himself these days.
    Thats why I tried to reach ESA)


    He also had (linkedin) contacts Mats Kling (CTO) and Magnus Eriksson (COO), but never had any contact with Mr. Timkrans or Mr. Simmonds.


    How far did the funding/development go ?
    1st of all, all numbers in the final report (SEE post #13) are indeed Mindark numbers. And I got told, that ESA did indeed pay for the pre-study, which, according to Mr. Iglesia's memory, was about 50.000€ (MA wanted 100.000€?). Thats what MA asked for creating a prototype. Which leads us to the next question.



    Was there ever any prototype version and did he play the prototype ?

    This is an interesting one. Mr. Iglesia did indeed get hands on a "binary" (executeable), which managed him (and others) to log into a "Mini-Entropia-Universe"...the area, that you can see the mock-up video.

    And as far as he remembers, the video does indeed show what he "played". As a long time player, Im still pretty sure, that the mock-up video has photoshopped menus and trade windows...because, why would Mindark change the fonts, the inventory design, the way the items look...if it was all there already ? (I do remember, that everytime MA asked me (or other Entropians that I was in contact with) to do videos...they always "only" promised PEDs from their own pockets...but never offered the support of special camera views of ingame scenarios...you get the hint...thats why all Entropia videos have a shaky cam from player movements. So does the ESA video. And the only professional video ever, will be the original one, from 2004, with Sayah King)


    What else did Mindark had in mind ?
    Mr. Iglesia remembered the discussion about a console-version, Mindark mentioned especially for this purpose.

    Now, Mindark had the vision of a console version back in 2004 already, but it never happened. Later Mindark said, that it would never happen, also because of the controls. But hey, why not revive that old pr-gag for the European Space Agency ?


    Would he have any additional paperwork/infos, that are NOT confidential and could be shared ?

    Yes and should he have the time to search for them, he will send them to my email.


    How did it all end and why ?
    It wasnt Mindark, that canceled the partnership. ESA had its reasons and it was mainly the people behind the funding, that probably had other plans, to spend the money on.


    Did he ever hear about Entropia Universe before ?

    Of course not.



    FiN



    Next, questiones directed to ex-MA Per A. Jonasson...
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    Wow McCormick you are like Mr Super Sleuth!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Today I recieved a reply by Per A. Jonasson.

    He told me that he has not been involved with MindArk since 8 years and suggested to contact Magnus Eriksson, current COO at Mindark.

    Knowing my mails wont get past David Simmonds...I have to involve someone else here...

    *PAUSE*
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Isn't Magnuc Eriksson is the head of the Balancing team? A more competent person has not walked this earth ever!
     

Share This Page