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scam or just a scum

Discussion in 'The Black Hole' started by tBANNA, May 30, 2020.

  1. Hello again,

    Sorry to bring the shitstorm here, but I got a few private messages asking about it. I wrote this post to explain a bit more about what happened.

    I posted this first on PCF (Planet Calypso Forum) which was locked and deleted. Then I posted on Cyrene Forum where it was locked but not deleted.

    Here is the Cyrene Forum link:

    https://cyreneforum.com/threads/divinitys-little-scam.8092/

    Here are the facts as I see them:

    1. I had a good deal at PA bank. I was pawning a Corrosive XIII FEN edition chip for up to 2 months which gave me plenty of time to remember to refinance my loan. Plenty of time was very important for me so I could avoid expiration on an item just sitting around getting dusty in storage.

    1a) Later on I spoke with Divinity and he convinced me that Twin Peaks bank was a better deal.
    1b) The deal was that if the loan expired, Divinity would keep it aside.

    2. In order to REFINANCE you need to get the item out of the bank and put it back. There is no other way to do it, PERIOD.

    3. Money was never my problem, EVER, PERIOD

    4. I made a deal with Divinity and Twin Peaks bank for only that one item (Corrosive XIII FEN). The deal wasn't for me in general only for that item. There is no room for excuses or misinterpretation.

    4. I had 2 options. I could place the item in the Twin Peaks bank or give it directly to Divinity. I chose to put the item in Twin Peaks bank for the simple reason that I need the item sometimes and could get it back at any time from the bank automatically.
    4a) The item was placed in the bank: 2019-03-17 13:03:25 [FROM: DDU] its already set @ bank m8
    4b) I wanted to use it from time to time, I cant have an item locked to someone who I have to meet with just to use the item. I wanted the item back at my discretion.
    4c) I had the item for sale and I wanted a price that wasn't much up for negotiation so I knew it would take some time to sell.
    The sale thread started at 06-18-2019, 01:23 link here: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?310984-Selling&highlight=
    4d) If the pawned item is up for sale someone may want to try it, so I would need it right away.
    (or I need to check tier rates or screenshot the item etc)

    5. No excuses. "I forgot" and "ok just let me know if it's about to expire..." I told him from the start money is not an issue. Convenience is an issue. Losing the item is an issue. If all I need from him is to keep it when I forget than how is "tell me if it is about to expire" helpful? From time to time I take the item out and put it back in as mentioned above. However it's always the SAME ITEM, so I thought he would check with me if it did expire unexpectedly.

    6. Why would I use Twin peaks bank instead of continuing to use PA bank? Yes, Twin Peaks is cheaper, however the main reason I chose Twin Peaks bank was for the agreed upon safety net in case I forgot to renew the loan in time. That gave me peace of mind.

    7. Here is the story Divinity told me:

    "The day i return from vacation is when i find the chip is unpaid. I also saw that the bank was low on funds as all the funds were loaned out to people ( We get notifications when people try taking loans and the fund is not there in the bank). I contacted 3 resellers ....... the third ( morey ) who is also a partner in the fund that runs the bank agreed to do a favorable deal ( discounted price on the chip). The deal was struck and the funds were collected to put in the bank."

    "A couple hours later the individual in question leaves messages while i was offline and again when i was online"

    "He mentioned how i was cheating him and that i had promised him to look after the chip. I explained to him that I had looked after it and he had already taken it out back then."

    "If he again puts the chip back the least he could have done is inform me of the same. I handle a lot of loans with various items and it is impossible for me to keep track of items indefinitely."

    "I had no news from him for the next 10-12 days and then I see his post on pcf claiming I had scammed him and him spreading the same news everywhere ingame. Needless to say I was extremely pissed at his behaviour of blaming without even trying to get my help to sort it out. I later found out that he did not speak to morey for roughly 7-8 days after me asking him to and when he did he was extremely rude and called him off without even trying to salvage a deal."

    --- end of Divinity's messages ---

    7a) I logged in just over 2 hours after 00:00 expiration time. So the logic is you were online from 00:00 to no later than 02:30 and your bank was low on funds and you had just returned from vacation so you sold the chip in this time window?

    7b) Divinity sold the chip to morey, but morey is actually a investment partner in Twin Peaks bank and also liable and active in keeping the float supplied. My chip wasn't actually sold to a separate entity but someone who is still part of the bank.

    7c) He points out I took the chip out of the bank at least 1 time and put it back in.
    He claims taking the chip out 1 time nullified the deal to keep it safe.
    I took the chip out to refinance it. We had talked about 1 month vs 2 month loans
    To me, it seemed obvious a 2 month loan would require "taking it out 1 time" under 1 month system.
    So it didn't occur to me that refinancing the item could possibly nullify the deal to keep it safe.

    7d) He says I should have informed him the chip was being refinanced.
    How should I now a rule that wasn't stated? I think he should have informed me of the need to inform.
    He could argue "I told you to warn me it would expire." but on refinance an item NEVER expires.

    7e) With his initial explanation Divinity was telling me morey is now the owner of the chip
    and that it was somehow now my responsibility to get my chip back from morey

    (morey is a partner of Divinity and more importantly part of Twin Peaks bank)
    Divinity's view on this matter is clarified with his later complaint about my PCF post
    "... blaming without even trying to get my help to sort it out. ..."
    I informed Divinity my chip was expired and missing. How is that not asking for help?
    I feel it was Divinity's responsibility to follow through on the deal we made.
    I feel Divinity had every opportunity to make things right and chose not to.
    Mechanically in the Entropia rules: Every trade is final.
    I think we just need to remember that is how Divinity feels he should conduct business.

    8) This is what morey had to say:

    2019-08-08 05:25:36 [FROM: AMK] I dunno anything about ur details with bank
    2019-08-08 05:26:01 [FROM: AMK] or the agrement u guys had

    If morey is a partner of the bank who propped up the float in a troublesome time, don't you think Divinity should have possibly included him in the deal? It's possible morey wouldn't want to give back the chip at cost, but isn't that between morey and Divinity? Why should I have to suffer losing my item to the "fair market" when I own it?

    I gave Divinity and morey plenty of time to talk among themselves and fix the problem. They are partners after all and both owners of Twin Peaks bank so I thought this should be an easy problem to sort out.

    When I saw that Divinity didn't lift a finger to help me, I acted accordingly.
    I did speak with Divinity before creating the first PCF thread.


    9) More recently Divinity fought back with these words:

    "A little more backdrop about the individual. He is the same guy I had asked the fund to payout on an event where he used techniques which were giving him an unfair advantage. We paid out 5k+ to him despite the fact that we could have just banned him and not paid. He was as a matter of fact not paid by the other LA event he was participating in using the same advantage."

    So Divinity wants to drag up the past.
    Perhaps he should have pointed out he doesn't like me before making a deal with me.

    In the land area event he asked me repeatedly how I got so many globals. Finally I told him. At which point he changed the rules mid-event. After that I lost my advantage and interest in hunting his land areas.

    Heres my secret: If you increase decay, you tend toward larger returns. For the same creatures, larger returns tend to trip the global limit more often. I used a weapon with horrible decay (swine deluxe).

    I did win 3568 PED from Divinity and partners.

    OK, so should I feel scammed is the question?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2020
  2. Now logs:

    PRIOR:
    2019-03-17 13:02:38 [TO : DDU] hey mate
    2019-03-17 13:02:44 [FROM: DDU] hey m8
    2019-03-17 13:03:11 [TO : DDU] can u take my corro XIII FEN as colat for a loan? fee and all that
    2019-03-17 13:03:25 [FROM: DDU] its already set @ bank m8
    2019-03-17 13:03:29 [FROM: DDU] the corro XIII that is
    2019-03-17 13:03:46 [TO : DDU] i know wanted to be for 2 months to not get stressed
    2019-03-17 13:03:54 [TO : DDU] i put it there already
    2019-03-17 13:04:02 [TO : DDU] 30 mins ago or so
    2019-03-17 13:04:14 [FROM: DDU] ok just let me know if its about to expire
    2019-03-17 13:04:18 [FROM: DDU] i'll keep it aside
    2019-03-17 13:04:21 [FROM: DDU] so dont worry
    2019-03-17 13:04:23 [TO : DDU] cheers
    2019-03-17 13:04:27 [TO : DDU] u rock
    2019-03-17 13:04:27 [FROM: DDU] just inform me if thats to happen
    2019-03-17 13:04:34 [TO : DDU] ty vm
    2019-03-17 13:09:54 [FROM: DDU] what u gonna do with the peds man?
    2019-03-17 13:11:04 [FROM: DDU] oh why PA buds?
    2019-03-17 13:11:49 [TO : DDU] umm was the 2 months period who made me drop there
    2019-03-17 13:11:59 [TO : DDU] i m afraid to not forget mate
    2019-03-17 13:12:08 [TO : DDU] not the ped itself is the issue
    2019-03-17 13:12:25 [TO : DDU] is me.. to not friggin forget a=to shoot miself

    AFTER:
    2019-08-02 04:17:34 [TO : DDU] cause i was at festival and i had no idea when 02 aug pup up is ended
    2019-08-02 04:17:51 [TO : DDU] thought has to do whit the fking hour i put it in
    2019-08-02 04:18:15 [TO : DDU] i had a reminder to do that but at 00.00 MA time, bum
    2019-08-02 04:18:33 [TO : DDU] and i was out at the festival drinking
    2019-08-02 04:18:47 [TO : DDU] just got home 1h ago or so
    2019-08-02 04:28:52 [FROM: DDU] hey.. sucks man cause i had sold the chip to morey when i got it.. i was like jackpot for the bank fund
    2019-08-02 04:29:22 [TO : DDU] u mean few h ago?
    2019-08-02 04:29:26 [FROM: DDU] yes
    2019-08-02 04:29:34 [TO : DDU] omg... geez
    2019-08-02 04:29:59 [TO : DDU] i told u mate i have that chip in your bank
    2019-08-02 04:30:13 [FROM: DDU] that was long back m8
    2019-08-02 04:30:20 [TO : DDU] 2 months ago
    2019-08-02 04:30:26 [TO : DDU] not to long
    2019-08-02 04:30:35 [FROM: DDU] exactly.. and there were 2 chips in there
    2019-08-02 04:30:45 [TO : DDU] 2 corro?
    2019-08-02 04:30:46 [FROM: DDU] 2 corrosive 13 that is
    2019-08-02 04:30:50 [FROM: DDU] yes
    2019-08-02 04:31:01 [FROM: DDU] it doesnt show to me who's the item is
    2019-08-02 04:31:11 [FROM: DDU] we get no info etc just item name
    2019-08-02 04:39:11 [TO : DDU] i have 2 ofers on forum, pending, is 4:38 MA time, and i m online [System]: Session time: 02:01:05
    2019-08-02 04:39:42 [TO : DDU] means 2 and a half hour before i log in u sold it?
    2019-08-02 04:40:37 [FROM: DDU] bank is low on funds to loan out.. so when a big item comes usually i contact all resellers and give them good price
    2019-08-02 04:41:01 [FROM: DDU] its profitable for the bank + also i don't have peds locked in big items
    2019-08-02 04:42:12 [TO : DDU] is not about that, is about i give u a heads up i have the item there, and i just could get home faster,
    2019-08-02 04:42:28 [TO : DDU] i tried, i lost 3h after 00 MA time
    2019-08-02 04:42:29 [FROM: DDU] u did not buds. If you had i would have kept my eyes out
    2019-08-02 04:42:46 [FROM: DDU] like Dr Ing told me in advance his item might expire
    2019-08-02 04:43:09 [FROM: DDU] so many people tell me and i always keep the items for them even if they miss it and it expire
    2019-08-02 04:44:02 [TO : DDU] and when u saw that corro FEN u just jumped to sell it in 2.5 h right after u got it, that was way to fast
    2019-08-02 04:44:25 [FROM: DDU] na i got a 20k offer and to me even if its worth more it was easier to sell for that
    2019-08-02 04:44:45 [TO : DDU] i mean i would neve thought u dont get the idea to hold it for a min untill i get on, since i tol u before i have a corro to your bank
    2019-08-02 04:44:56 [TO : DDU] just to hold it, was under 3h mate
    2019-08-02 04:45:22 [FROM: DDU] buds.. u told me long back.. and tbh i dint even remember it.. I can't remember all the items for months
    2019-08-02 04:45:53 [FROM: DDU] If something someone has in bank and there is a chance of it to expire they usually tell me and i keep my eyes out for it
    2019-08-02 04:47:38 [FROM: DDU] need to log..i'll be back in a few hour


    more logs:

    2019-08-08 05:16:13 [TO : AMK] man u and divinity are a piece of work
    2019-08-08 05:16:29 [TO : AMK] why i could not saw that earlier
    2019-08-08 05:18:35 [FROM: AMK] ??
    2019-08-08 05:18:58 [TO : AMK] i feel scammed man, i had an understanding whit him regardin the corro FEN
    2019-08-08 05:19:05 [TO : AMK] now i see u sellin it
    2019-08-08 05:19:31 [TO : AMK] he put me to move the chip from PA where i had 2 months time to Twin bank
    2019-08-08 05:19:57 [TO : AMK] and i told him if i by mistake forget to reloan it to take care of me
    2019-08-08 05:20:02 [TO : AMK] he did the oposite
    2019-08-08 05:20:24 [TO : AMK] making excuses that he forgot or bullshits that were 2 in bank
    2019-08-08 05:20:43 [TO : AMK] i loged in after the loan expired few mins afer 2h
    2019-08-08 05:20:52 [TO : AMK] told me he sold it to u
    2019-08-08 05:21:05 [TO : AMK] he told me was a jackpot
    2019-08-08 05:21:28 [TO : AMK] really... and now he play the dimb and the offline
    2019-08-08 05:21:42 [TO : AMK] pice of shit both of ya, no honor no nothing
    2019-08-08 05:25:36 [FROM: AMK] I dunno anything about ur details with bank
    2019-08-08 05:26:01 [FROM: AMK] or the agrement u guys had
    2019-08-08 05:26:03 [TO : AMK] oh, right, when did u got the corro?
    2019-08-08 05:30:11 [TO : AMK] is hard to say when or?
    2019-08-08 05:34:44 [FROM: AMK] well i got it from him a week ago or so.
    2019-08-08 05:35:09 [TO : AMK] lol
    2019-08-08 05:35:13 [TO : AMK] impossible
    2019-08-08 05:38:26 [TO : AMK] can u list the forst 5 tier rates?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2020
  3. Crying won't help you because this isn't a scam at all and for beeing in Entropias #1 cheating soc this serves you right
     
  4. yayyyy dramaaaaaaaa
     
  5. How do you forget to check it once every 2 months? No sympathy from me.
     
  6. Fan_boy99

    Fan_boy99 Ignore Spawn and San they are Sheeples

    Quote ''dumb as bread'' :) :) (i dont mean YOU Tbanna). MA wont ever ever ban botters/alts/exploitors EVER unless it annoys ''Dodgy Dave'' (his latest ''Movie teaser is on this forum') allows it. Just stay silent if any exploits dont tell any1 (not even cats or dogs)

    Edited. We already read about Mr Divitarty and your thing already. Its in the Big Picture and a few threads on here about that and Divinity :) gl
     
  7. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Explorer

    Not sure I understand your comment. If you meant tbanna using swine deluxe is a cheat I strongly disagree. Selecting what gun you use is in no way an "unfair advantage" but rather part of the game and far from cheating you can get.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. narfi

    narfi Lost

    It is an interesting thought exercise. Basically it comes down to the difference between exploiting and cheating.

    Exploit - "make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)."
    Cheat - "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination."

    We exploit advantages every day, it is how we operate.

    It is not cheating for us to do most of our breathing with our heads above water, it is just exploiting the advantages of the way our body processes oxygen from air easier than from water.

    We exploit the different resources of our (real world as well as virtual) world and use them to manufacture goods we want.

    I do not know the full extent of the situation, but if in fact event rewards were withheld because someone used a higher decaying weapon that was not bugged (known to operate outside the parameters of its statistics and/or announced by MA that it is not operating properly) then that is wrong. Any player who has been around long enough to be participating in events like that has been around long enough to know that decay has a direct relationship to loot, no one knows the exact, but everyone has the ability to test on their own and see obvious variations. Those change from time to time as MA tweeks stuff, but we all know they exist, and more knowledge of them does not equate to cheating, but to exploiting your own research and knowledge of the game. (for example I spent some time on low level high regen Things using a cb5+dante for testing experiments, I remember this because I accidentally TTed the dante on accident during the tests o.0 )

    I personaly have never had any issues with Divinity, and always got along with him well, my wife showed him the game when he first started and if I remember right even helped him with tp runs back when that was a thing.

    Since I am in a reflective mood, here is another bit of thought I have,
    It was always my dream to do something 'bigger' in Entropia, run and manage larger land area groups, be involved directly in the lore or development of a planet, etc.... Become an Auktuma, a Neverdie, a Buzz, but with my own spin on things. If that had ever come to pass, would I be the 'devil' everyone chased?

    Divinity has been successful, Blastoise has been successful..... To some extent or another success in a real cash economy requires some ruthlessness. Some like Messi embrace that persona and make it clear their intent is to screw everyone else over for their own profit. To embrace that requires a play style that does not depend on public opinion. Others like Divinity and Blastoise play a more political game, where their ruthlessness requires a silver tongue, they have had to learn to screw you over while making you think it was your own idea. This doesn't necessarily make them evil, it just means they play a different style of game.

    As an example, my small amount of success was winning the Hunt the Thing event and the MacReady and the successful transport business we built around that ship.

    To win that event I 'exploited' the system by using the firepower of 10-20 players to produce globals under just my name. (easily done by hunting un-teamed with a large group and doing the most dps)

    The reason the transport business was so successful was because I 'exploited' human nature and pricing. I provided a 'service' for free that all other operations charged significant amounts for, asking only for 'tips' to travel on my schedule or a flat rate for VIPs + tips. This allowed us to draw a larger client base who often tipped higher than the other businesses charged outright. I created an environment and community around the ship with the sole purpose being my own profit. That is the point of the game and I exploited it in what I felt (and still do) was an ethical way.

    People hated me, people accused me of all sorts of things, because in my small way, I had become successful in this cut throat game.

    Again, I do not know the situation being discussed, am not taking sides, but it is interesting to think about.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1

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