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Narfi's Life after EU: Chapter Three - 14' Hiawatha Canoe

Discussion in 'Life, the Universe and Everything' started by narfi, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Put the third coat of graphite on and pulled the tape and paper.
    I'm satisfied with it. Dead bug lumps got bigger each coat but overall it looks pretty good for the side of the boat no one looks at.

    Heating off and on.... will see if I'm confidant enough to turn it over tomorrow night.....

    20170830_215556 (Medium).

    Temps this morning before breakfast.....
    20170831_080137 (Medium).

    Ran the heater for 40 minutes and heading to work.... will see if Landon can go out mid day and run it another 30-40 minutes.

    Hopeful it will be cured enough to set it upright tonight.....
  2. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Landon has discovered the joy of sharpening sticks with a pocket knife :p

    20170831_232145 (Medium).
    My wife helped me flip the canoe over. Set it on paper draped around foam pads just in case there was still any softness to the graphite and epoxy.

    Sanded the last fill slots on the rubrail and sanded and drilled the holes for the hatches.
    20170831_233549 (Medium).

    Cleaned it well and blew it all out. Then taped and masked the graphite bottom.
    20170831_232209 (Medium).

    Sprayed the primer......
    The good:
    I am happy with the fairing. Everything looks smooth no bad high or low spots.
    20170831_232245 (Medium).

    20170831_232334 (Medium).

    The bad:
    Quite a few spots like this.
    A couple small voids in the rubrail.
    Quite a few small holes on the edges of the tapes. Is this what is referred to as pinholes?
    20170831_232452 (Medium).

    20170831_232609 (Medium).

    More bad:
    It looks great from 5ft. If I hadn't run it so bad I would probably call it good enough.
    The primer is much thicker than anything I've sprayed before and it took me a while to get the gun set up right. The instructions call for up to 20% thinning with 50/50 alcohol/water or just pure water. I thinned 20% with the 50/50 mix and it was still too thick. I ended up nearly spackle coating the first coat and it was dry in spots and running in spots. Terrible!

    I turned the heater on and went inside for an hour and came back out and sprayed a much more heavily thinned batch and was able to turn the paint flow down and air flow up to the gun and that is how I got the "good" looking pictures above.

    It hid some of the runs but they are still there and pretty bad. There is also the issue of all the little holes.....

    What should I do?
    In the morning I'll see if the left over primer is still wet and brush it into the voids and holes.... good idea or bad?

    Then once the primer is fully cured can I wet sand it with a higher grit successfully? Or will the runs require something more aggressive? They are big and plentiful :/
  3. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Settle more south? :wink:
    • Funny Funny x 2
  4. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Did some googling today and found similar findings for s3 primer. It needs to be thinned a lot more for spraying. I was happy with the second coat I did last night so plan to proceed as planned.

    I mixed epoxy with just enough fairing compound to color it, not to overly thicken it. Then brushed it into all the pinholes.

    My thought was I wanted it thin enough to work into the holes but the color so I would know where to sand.

    I did it in 1.5oz batches heated thin before mixing. Some waste with the medium kicking before each batch was applied but not much. Wow heat makes a big difference in work time :p
    I had intended to wipe the drips off once done since I only need the holes filled but it had already started gelling so I left it.
  5. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Slept in for once [​IMG]
    Went out and filled the areas where epoxy had dripped out of the pinholes from last night. I used straight epoxy with fast hardner. Maybe 1/10 of them needed re filling and all had the color of the filler from last night so no need to mark them again just fill and wait.

    Got another 5gal of diesel for the heater..... this last push is going to be expensive......

    I blame Eric. I think it is a sickness [​IMG]
    (Eric is a guy on the boat building forum who has been meticulously sanding his 21' boat all year)

    Sanded the inside this afternoon and tonight. Flipped it over and got one chine panel sanded. Still 2 sides and a chine left to sand. Got tired at 12.30 and came in and showered and heading to bed....
    20170904_004939 (Medium).

    Found one palm sized area I need to fill pinholes in on the chine so far but I think the inside and rubrail are good. Almost mixed up a little tonight to fill the spot on the chine buy I'm sure I'll find a few more before I'm ready to prime again.....
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. narfi

    narfi Lost

    As suspected I found a couple more patches of pinholes and filled them tonight after sanding. Finished before 10.30 [​IMG]

    20170904_222121 (Medium).

    Plan tonight is to sand these last few spots. Retape the graphite( I nicked the tape in a few spots sanding) then bake the tent and spray the final coat of primer.
  7. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Man, I'm afraid you will finish your boat earlier than I can finish my 3d-print. Looks like you are on a good way!
  8. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Sept 5, 2017
    Landon started 2nd grade today. (We didn't get launched before school started [​IMG] )

    He still is interested and wants to be involved though.

    20170905_232821 (Medium).
    I had mentioned the forced air mask to someone on the boat building forum. Here is what it looks like with the umbilical cord over my shoulder.
    20170905_232906 (Medium).
    I thinned the primer 50% this time and sprayed a thin even coat over the canoe. It sprayed much better.
    20170905_232930 (Medium).
    However the problem is that it seemed to want to separate over any of the areas I had filled and sanded. It stuck great to the old primer.
    20170905_233015 (Medium).
    I don't know if this is an issue with being over thinned, not clean enough surface or the epoxy filler not being fully cured and creating a reaction.....

    I did find a few more pinholes but nothing I am concerned with.
    Now I just need to get a smooth enough primed surface to paint.

    My two thoughts are,
    Spray another thin coat in the morning and then sand once it's cured.

    Wait till tomorow night and sand these problem areas and spray again....
    I was happy with the even application but those areas that separated then created runs under them I will need to sand as well.....

    All horizontal surfaces look amazing!

    So much for waiting till morning...
    Ran the heater for an hour and the primer was mostly dry to the touch. (Runs were still slightly tacky)

    So I mixed another batch and sprayed it. Now it looks good.... all those problem areas are gone!
    20170906_012811 (Medium).

    If I am still happy tomorow I'll lightly sand the runs and spray the white.

    Any suggestions or warnings?
    Should I prime again after sanding the runs? How do you decide?

    1.40am I'm off to shower and sleep. Work at 8 [​IMG]

    Thinking in the shower. I don't think my compressor is keeping up with the gun and the mask combined very well.

    I probably need to find a respirator and use it instead of the mask :/
  9. narfi

    narfi Lost

    At this point there was a lot of discussion between me and a more experienced boat builder on waiting time for the primer to cure.
    He had issues spraying S3 topcoat over S3 primer within 24hrs where a year later the topcoat pealed off. He blames not waiting long enough for the primer to cure.

    The manufacture says 24hrs (depending on temp) and I had the heater going hard for several hours 80f+ air temp. Manufacture says wet your finger and try to rub the primer, if you can soften it with water its not cured.

    I have read alot of bad reviews for the S3 topcoat, which is why I decided to use the AwlGrip topcoat.... so we were somewhat comparing oranges to tangerines.

    I did not heed his warning, time will tell which of us was right.
  10. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Against AAs better judgement I went ahead tonight. Time will tell and I can be a data point for you. If I end up with the same issues using AWL grip top coat then we know it's the primer curing time is the common denominator. If it doesn't cause issues we can assume it was the s3 top coat was the issue.

    I did the wet finger rub test and couldn't soften it tonight.
    Sanded all the runs with 120 grit.
    Sanded every surface inside and out with 240 grit. (Never gummed up the paper)

    Borrowed a respirator instead of the forced air mask [​IMG]
    Sprayed what I ment to be a very light first coat but was much heavier than I intended.

    20170906_214953 (Medium).
    Ran the heater for 30 minutes and sprayed a much lighter second coat. It still filled in nicely and hid most of the grey.

    Ran the heater for a little over an hour and sprayed a decent 3rd coat and was happy with the results.
    20170907_000539 (Medium).

    One decent sag on an inside chine panel but doesn't look too bad. Certainly not worth messing with. (Maybe I'll get lucky and it will fall to the floor and level itself out..... hehe probably not)

    The only real issue was the underside of the rub rails. I got them covered but because of the hidden angles it's nearly impossible not to get too much so runs abound on the outside under the rails.
    I used the last of the paint and gave a pretty light coat over the entire exterior... figured it would help in the areas I had sanded through the primer. Can't hurt anyways.

    Caught a few bugs already inside but can't mess with them till it cures now.

    For the runs on the outside. What s the best way to sand Awlgrip top coat? Same as I was primer? 120 followed by 240? Wet or dry?
  11. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Sept 7, 2017

    20170907_092449 (Medium).
  12. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Sanded all the runs on the side panels under the rub rails (and anywhere) where I got some runs with 120 followed by sanding lightly the entire outside with 240.

    Taped the rub rails and inside and masked the radioactive symbol on the top. Didn't have a clean unwanted white spot outside for Landon's name so I'll have to do it after the red.

    Mixed the red paint and then Murphy showed up.
    My LED lights are in series two rows and the connector after the 2nd bulb failed just as I got the paint mixed.... Didn't have a ladder so tried bumping it with a broom handle... only knocked dust and bugs down on the boat.... ended up hooking power up to the other end of the series and had all but 2 bulbs light.

    Painted 2 coats of red and while I was happy not to get any runs, every spot I had sanded down to primer showed through terribly. Sprayed a 3rd coat and it nearly covered it. Hard to see with a camera but I can with the naked eye still pretty easily.

    20170908_031707 (Medium).

    20170908_031748 (Medium). Unless someone convinces me it's stupid and I need to re prime and paint. My plan is 2 more coats in the morning and hope that finishes the coverage I want.

    I'm really happy with my spraying now... wish I'd done so well on the primer and white.... and that I can remember it all when the fs17 is ready...

    3.30am I need sleep.

    In 10yrs Landon can refinish it....... (In response to someone saying it will need to be redone in 10yrs anyways because Landon is going to ding it up on rocks first time out)

    Got up this morning and bought another 6gal of diesel [​IMG]

    Sprayed 2 more coats (5 total) and am happy with it.(after coat 4 It was completely covered and could no longer see any splotxhes showing through, did the 5th for "just in case" payed for it with a small run you wont see and i wont show anyone) It covered well just needed more coats. Such a relief after being so frustrated after coat 2 last night at 2am.

    20170908_100025 (Medium). 20170908_101622 (Medium).

    Heater is acting up but I still managed to get to work by 10.
    My wife will monitor it some today and hopefully tonight I can mask for the name on the side. Otherwise will have to do it tomorrow....
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    LOL! All this sounds like a lot of not used work and problems to me. Narfi, probably you should keep distance to hard core folks in forums and limit your goals to some basic purpose. Just build a wooden boat that swims. And have fun with it. Together with your son. The boat was ready way in the past. But you spent a lot of time and material with fine-tuning. Simply put her into water! Before it's frozen!
  14. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Sept, 9, 2017

    Masked and sprayed Landon's name (first and middle) on today.
    20170909_135651 (Medium).

    After work I couldn't help myself and peaked a bit at the other end....
    20170909_234720 (Medium).

    Will need to do a bit of razor work when I peal it all back, but if the rest looks like this I will be happy!
  15. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Finished unwrapping today.

    20170910_191307 (Medium).

    20170910_191459 (Medium).

    20170910_163444 (Medium).

    Had a couple spots I hadn't taped well enough and there were pink misted spots a couple square inches each. I was able to rub them out with a papertowl and reducer since the red wasn't fully cured yet.

    I could have taped around the seats and yoke a little better but I think I can scrape it okish with a razor.

    There are a few bugs and a few runs but from 4ft it looks good to me. I'm happy with it so far.

    Still need to glue the hatch rings in and clean up some bad tape spots.

    Hope to launch it Tuesday or Wednesday depending on weather and how hard I think the paint is feeling.
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Thumbs up old boy! Looks pretty good. Good luck with the launch and have fun!
  17. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Sept 12, 2017

    Started building July 8th, 2017
    Launched September 12th, 2017

    Deviations from the plans:
    4oz fiberglass over entire inside and outside. (Plans just have tape on the seams)
    Air tight compartments added to each end and covered outside with 4oz fiberglass.
    Seats each moved 4.5in toward the center.
    Seats lowered almost to the bottoms of the side panels.
    Plans specify 55lbs if built light. This one ended up a 90lb beast.

    I had read horror stories of this model being very unstable and was concerned how we would fair on our launch.
    I am happy to report that we had no issues with stability even in small wakes from other boats or small rollers once out on the big lake. Landon was a little timid of tipping but by 20minutes into our trials he was jumping up and down and intentionally trying to rock back and forth. Once back he got out and I pushed back out and tried standing up solo and had no issues with balance even with most of my weight on one foot to the side it was fairly stable. Then his turn for solo was also successful and he had no trouble going out and ramming back onto shore by himself.

    I have no experience with canoes or paddling. It seems to move quickly through the water and while it takes a few strokes to really build momentum, it seems to glide quite a ways once you stop as well.

    Landon had fun, I had fun, and we both are quite proud [​IMG]

    20170912_171657 (Medium). 20170912_212654 (Medium). 20170912_212722 (Medium). 20170912_212750 (Medium). 20170912_212820 (Medium). 20170912_212847 (Medium). 20170912_212919 (Medium). 20170912_213032 (Medium). 20170912_213058 (Medium). 20170912_213137 (Medium). 20170912_213210 (Medium). 20170912_213334 (Medium). 20170912_213406 (Medium).
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Sept 19, 2017

    No more pictures, but had it out for a couple of hours on Sunday.
    With Landon and one of his friends #80 and #60 and me #235 and the boat #90 (total of 465)

    It was so stable that Landons friend who had no fear whatsoever would randomly stand up and walk around like he was on a large boat, and they kept leaning over the edges picking leaves out of the water. (Autumn is upon us)

    We paddled around the bay for a bit, then out into the open lake and down the beach a ways to another of Landon's friends, beached and Landon ran up and called him out to play, he launched his plastic kayak and we chased each other in circles for a bit (and maybe played bumper boats just a tiny bit [​IMG] )
    Then paddled back home. About 2hrs on the water, gone from the house 2.5-3hrs total.
    I am still learning paddling techniques, and can sort of paddle straight on one side now, but still need to correct direction from the other side every 8th stroke or so. (the boys weren't much help with paddling but did try a little)
    Surprisingly my rear was not sore from the bench, but my lifelong achievement of never stretching or doing yoga came into play a bit and I alternated between sitting cross legged and with my legs out in front of me under the yoke, to fairly good effect, I was still able to walk when we were done [​IMG]

    Thus ends the meat of this chapter.
    Next Chapter.... a 17 foot V-hull powerboat.
  19. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Huge congratulation! I like your project so much.
    Makes a good feeling, doesn't it?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    I've just seen this - amazing!
    • Thanks Thanks x 1

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