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Narfi's Life after EU: Chapter Three - 14' Hiawatha Canoe

Discussion in 'Life, the Universe and Everything' started by narfi, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Jaysen wrote:
    Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:53 am
    49F is winter temperatures! No idea how you guys stand that up there.
    Looks great. When do you plan to launch it?

    When its done I guess.....
    There is a saying I read a lot when studying homebuilt aircraft, 90% done, 90% to go.

    I don't know what I am doing, and have no expectations. Just trying to do as much as I can each night after work and hopefully I will wake up one morning and it will be done.

    Things I know I still need to do,
    • Yoke.... I dragging my feet on this one because I have trouble visualizing what I want or how to do it. I really just need to do it and be done with it....
    • Cut the 8" holes for the water tight hatches, seal the exposed plywood, overdrill the mounting holes and fill them with thickened epoxy and redrill to the proper size.
    • Cut and glue batons around the tops of the compartments.
    • Prime and paint in the compartments.
    • Glue the tops on the compartments. (havent decided if I will put 4oz over the compartments or not, I probably will since I have everything else so far.)
    • Finish shaping the ends of the rubrails and the overfilled gouge repair.
    • Round over the 3 sharp corners of the rubrail and compartment bulkheads then seal the exposed plywood.
    • At least one more round of fairing and sanding inside, possibly one more outside.
    • A very very thoural cleaning of the boat and work area.
    • Determine how high up the sides I want the graphite and tape and mask for that.
    • Roll the graphite bottom on as many coats as to be determined. (3?)
    • Sand edges of graphite if needed?
    • Tape and mask off the graphite and prime the entire boat in and out.
    • Paint White inside and rubrails down low enough to mask for lettering.
    • Mask "Landon Reed" in 3" letters below the rubrail at each end. (should that be on the left or right when looking at the side? or should it be on all 4 ends?) Mask the Radioactive symbol on the tops of the compartments. (Landons favorite song for sometime has been Radioactive by Imagine Dragons) (I need to order the mask for the lettering and symbols, but keep forgetting)
    • Paint the outside red, paint the masked symbols red, probably seats and yoke red as well to break up the pure (off)white interior.
    • Remove all the tape and masking and cry about the blemishes.
    • Glue and screw in the waterproof hatches.
    • Launch!
    • (Still want to build paddles, but not sure if I will fit that in or not)
  2. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Dug through the scrap pile of 2x4s and found the straightest least knotty piece I could find and using random round objects and strait edges drew a yoke pattern on it.

    Went to my boss's father in laws who is an old woodcrafter but his shop is getting in floor hear and all his tools are in storage. He has a little saw that worked though and we rough cut out the shape I had drawn.

    Once back at the boat factory Landon wanted to put the puzzle back together again :p

    20170817_224815 (Medium).

    As you can see it was quite rough.
    20170817_224845 (Medium).

    Used the orbital sander to get the edges fairly flat and rounded the curves and flattened the straits. Then used the 1/2" round over bit in the router to round over all 4 sides.

    I surprised myself how nice it turned out.
    20170817_224938 (Medium).

    After this picture I did a bit more hand sanding and smoothed out the little ridges and bumps. It is ready to get sealed, sanded sealed again and installed.

    What support should it have for installing? Was thinking maybe an inch or so of plywood "trim" on the hull around it to spread the glue surface.... it's kind of a small awkward shape for cloth or tape.... how do most people attach them?
  3. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Probably we should ask RAZER or Tass for making an new section named "Crafting IRL" or something :boxer:
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    I have no clue what this part is good for. Enlighten me and I can answer to your question.
  5. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Landon was having some fun with the yoke before installing it [​IMG]

    20170819_080803 (Medium).
    Decided to "just" glue it in and fillet it. Will enlarge the fillets once it is secure and put one or two layers of tape around to the hull.
    20170819_080845 (Medium).
    The bows rise up a bit so I couldn't use straight batons for securing the compartment tops. I cut them in 4 pieces each side and that took care of the problem.
    20170819_080917 (Medium).

    Got up this morning and brought the epoxy inside and put in a tote of got water in the bathtub.

    While it was heating up I fried up a pan of sausage and bacon and eggs and refried beans. Great way to start a Saturday morning!

    Then took the resin back out to the boat factory and coated the yoke and compartment batons.

    Sky's are clear and sunny so hoping to get the tent baking today:)
    20170819_080950 (Medium).

    20170819_100744 (Medium). 20170819_100808 (Medium). 20170819_100851 (Medium).
  6. narfi

    narfi Lost

    The 'Yoke' or 'Thwart' serves two purposes;
    it is a structural spreader that keeps the sides from flexing (very little strength needed for this)
    It is also a 'portage yoke' or 'carrying yoke', you turn the canoe upside down and carry it between lakes or rivers on your shoulders, with your head up through the neck hole.

    Lets be honest though...... I don't want to be carrying it very far and probably wont...... however I do want it to perform properly if needed. I have decided to make large radius fillets around the attachment to the hull and use 2 layers of fiberglass tape to secure it more structurally. Some people have suggested countersinking screws through the hull into it, but I kind of want to take pride in there being no metal fasteners in the boat. (except for the hatch plates which arent structural)

  7. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    I understand. So it should endure the whight of the canoo. That would be done by some epoxy. But you can add a small (3 - 4 inch) triangular support half inch thick at each side. Just to be at the safe side.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  8. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Brought the hole cutter home from work and cut the compartment hatch holes. They looked a little rough after cutting but it was an illusion, touched it with 80 grit block and it looked great.

    20170820_101152 (Medium). 20170820_101212 (Medium). 20170820_101251 (Medium). 20170820_101508 (Medium). 20170820_101351 (Medium). 20170820_101418 (Medium). 20170820_101447 (Medium).

    Flipped it over and sanded the fillets under the rub rails.
    Routed the bottom corner of the rubrail with 3/8" round over and sanded with a foam rubber 80grit block.

    Decided I would do an idiot test on priming.....

    Rough sanded the inside of the compartments certainly not perfect but knocked most of the sharp edges down....

    Pulled it out and rinsed it off in and out, esp the end compartments.

    Brought it back in and mopped out all the water with a sponge. Then dried the compartments with a paper towel.

    It wasn't completely dry but the s3 primer can be thinned with water so hopefully not too big an issue.... part of the "idiot" test.

    Taped the edges of the top panels and the tops of the batons in the compartments. Tape wasn't sticking too well because it was still damp.

    Mixed 4oz to 1oz of primer, it is THICK. Specs say not to apply under 50f, it was 56f through the night.
    Brushed it on with a cheap chip brush....

    20170820_100814 (Medium).

    20170820_103707 (Medium). 20170820_101701 (Medium). 20170820_101740 (Medium). 20170820_101848 (Medium). 20170820_102000 (Medium).
    Checked this morning and it's still wet. Only 55f it says fully cured in 24hours at 77f........
    Rained all night and not much evaporating going on, there was still water on other parts of the boat.
    I think I applied it too thickly as it had pooled in the bottoms a bit and the pigment separated some in the "pools" however it did make a nice smooth bottom surface :p

    *after a few posts on the boating forum from Florida residents commenting on how our summer is like their winters.....*

    Landon has been outside in just a t-shirt playing well below 0f.... drives his mother crazy. "I don't need a coat, I'm Alaskan boy!"

    55f and raining I caught him at the playground in just shorts, no shirt or shoes soaking wet and covered in mud, having a blast. Asked where his shirt Was, "It was muddy so I took it off, it's not cold"

    I sanded the ridges off the tapes holding the seats and compartment bulkheads. Sanded the epoxy drips off the bottom of the yoke. Sanded the edges of the 4oz cloth wrapped under the seats where it wasn't laid down perfectly.(tops and sides are good, just the edge of the cloth underneath had a ridge to sand)

    Built up a large fillet of wood flour mix around the yoke, then epoxied in two layers of 12oz tape. The first layer about 1/2 the width of the outer layer you see in the picture. I'll sand the top off flush once it's cured. I think this should be plenty strong for holding it on place.

    20170821_005720 (Medium).

    I mixed up some fairing compound and applied it to the seat tops and attachment areas as well as around the bulkheads and hopefully the last layer on the floor.
    I mixed it thinner this time and used a brush in some places and the spreader in others. I think the brush will work well with thin fairing in spots as I get closer to finished.

    I know the air bubbles aren't as big a deal on a non planing boat.... buy they have been bugging me. I attacked them with an exacto knife tonight and got one side done. Picture is of the worst area.
    20170821_005844 (Medium).
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Great job, Narfi! It looks very well so far. And you are a perfectionist as well with this round hole for the hatch ;-) Good tools are often half the work done.
    What is the estimated wight of the boat? And how many hours did you and your son spend on it so far?
  10. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Too much and way too many :P


    The Designer estimates that built from Okoume marine grade plywood and built to design with minimal fairing should weigh 55lbs (25kg).
    However, I added 4oz cloth inside and out, added the compartment bulkheads and the tops of the compartments are much longer than the required breasthook. I am fairing quite a bit, and am a first time amateur with the entire fiberglass layup, so more resin was used than ideal. (extra resin adds no strength to a structure just weight)

    I will be happy if it comes in under 80lbs.

    Time spent is hard to determine.... 6 weeks out there every night + longer days on the weekends. However I don't know what I am doing so a lot of that time is spent looking at it and thinking and not actually doing any work...
  11. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Wait, where from do I know this creative "doing nothing because I have no clue what to do or how to do next step"? ;-) Believe me, I know what you mean. I had breaks of more than half a year already. I lost fun because of seemingly impregnable difficaulties. But six weeks only until this point is impressive! I spent nearly five years until I started with my 3d-project Mallory, wich is the first one with (hopefully) reasonable results.
  12. narfi

    narfi Lost

    That is 40-50hrs for an ugly boat that floats.
    Maybe I am not doing too badly for a (hopefully) pretty boat that floats in 3-4x that much time.........
    I hope it floats :P
  13. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    During my studies a tutor inspected our works. Please be aware, that I'm old. At this time we used drawing boards. He asked us - a group of 5 or 6 students - to step back two meters and have a distant view to the presented construction (drawing). Small details vanished and it was more easy to get a general view. I am still thankfull to this tutor. It was one of the most important experiances during my studies. He told us: "Have a look for the general proportions. Do they look balanced and adequate? Do they look beautiful or at least halfway nice to you? Step back and don't care for all the details you put so much effort into so far for a moment. Just judge the general appereance. And ask yourself: Will it work? Does it look trustworthy?"

    Watching your last pictures I would trust into your boat. And it's by far not ugly. She is a little beauty! Good luck with sliding her into water!
  14. narfi

    narfi Lost

    My wife came out and helped me tonight.
    We finished attacking all the air bubbles with x-acto knives then brushed it off really well.

    Mixed thin mix of filler, thin enough we could brush it into the bottoms if all the holes we cut out then as a batch was starting to kick and thicken up we would dab the the thicker mix over the filled craters turning the concave spots convex.

    20170821_222925 (Medium).

    The primer in the bottoms of the compartments is still soft. The top panels are the driest so I did a test I read in the literature. I dipped my finger in water then rubbed a primed area, it did soften it slightly but not much.

    Lesson learned.... the primer is water thinned however you shouldn't apply it on a wet surface at 55f and 100% humidity....... :p

    Fuzz wrote:
    Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:42 am
    "If your weather is like mine, rain non stop the past week, I am not surprised the primer is not fully dry yet. [​IMG]
    Good thing is one nice day in your shed and it will be dry."

    Yeah its been a cold wet summer :/
    Atleast I had that nice week when I first started the project [​IMG]

    Was beautiful last night about 1am, did a late oil change on the generators and was walking home, the sky was clear and stary, the air was still not too cold since we did have sun yesterday. Love moments like those.

    This morning though after a clear night was cold though, down into the 30s.... first day this fall my bare hands have gotten cold on the 4wheeler driving to work.
  15. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Finally a sunny day. Got home and the tent had finally done some baking.

    20170823_004136 (Medium).

    Decided to test out the yoke. It seems strong and the attachment to the hull seems strong. Was awkward getting it up on my shoulders but once up was easy to carry around. Realized afterwards I didn't need to lift the whole thing up.... just one end and then stand under it while one end is still on the ground..... tried that way and was quite easy.

    20170823_004304 (Medium).

    Did a lot of sanding inside, around the yoke attachment, seat attachment, and general fairing.

    Put the first coat of paint in the compartments. It brushed easily even with the spray activator.
    20170823_004215 (Medium).

    Like I said before.... the prime and paint in the compartments is my idiot test. The dampest of the compartments for primer had dried completely but not cured 100% I could still dig a fingernail into it as well as soften it with a wet finger. Will see if I get any reaction between it and the Awlgrip

    Got up before work and put another coat of paint in the compartments and glued the tops down.
    20170823_103620 (Medium).

    That's almost it for structure.
    Going to put a layer of 4oz over the compartments and then it's just fairing to finish and bits and pieces like rounding over the rub rails etc.....

    My paint experiments in the compartments were just to see how much you could stretch the rules..... for the rest of the painting I will be spraying and following the rules..... I hope....
  16. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    Exactly what I thought when you answered to my question regarding the weight. 25 kg too heavy? That should be easy to handle for a man like you or me. Landon is another case of course. But he will grow up next years, become taller and stronger. Just add a removable small tire at the back end of the boat and even Landon can carry it right now.

    If the yoke is in the middle and the abaft part lies at the ground the carrier has to carry 75% of the weight only. 19 kg. Ask your son to try it out!
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  17. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Compartment top glue wasn't ready to sand yet so I flipped it over and sanded off the spot fairing We had put on the outside. Then touched up the spots we had missed. I think this is the last to go on the outside. (I hope)

    20170823_235415 (Medium).

    So what ratio do you mix the graphite?
  18. narfi

    narfi Lost

    I sanded the excess glue around the compartment tops and got them smooth and flush with the rub rails.
    20170824_223151 (Medium).

    Then I used the router to round over the rub rails in and out. Pictures don't do it justice, I am really happy with the fully rounded over tops.
    20170824_200455 (Medium).
    20170824_223333 (Medium).
    Glassed the outside of the compartments tops and bulkheads with 4oz. Then put the first epoxy coat over all the bare wood on the rub rails.
    20170824_223413 (Medium).

    If weather doesn't change I am probably going to have to take it to work and paint it.... still thinking about heating options for the tent :/

    Got up this morning and put a layer of fairing compound over the fresh glass.
    My Bondo scrapers aren't as smooth as when I started the project..... starting to leave grooves....... Will want to buy extras when I start the big boat.
    Put a second coat of epoxy on the rubrail and used left over fairing compound to fill a couple small voids.

    20170825_103523 (Medium).

    (in response to a couple of answers I got on graphite ratios people were using on their boat bottoms)
    When you say 25% do you mean 25% of the epoxy? (4parts epoxy 1 part graphite) or do you mean 25% of the total? (3 parts epoxy 1 part graphite)

    Either way the difference between your ratio and Karl's 50/50 is significantly different..... what are the advantages and disadvantages to going heavy on graphite or light on graphite in the mix?
  19. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Didn't get much done so far this weekend.
    Had some friends over and we watched an Irish guy and a strip club owner punch each other in the face for a bit.

    First PPV I ever bought and I wasn't disappointed. Don't think either of the fighters were either, both walked out with their heads held high.

    Going to wash the anime blush off the compartments and rub rails tonight then start the final sanding push tomorow.
  20. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Last night I finished sanding inside. Sanded the rub rails. Drilled and overdrilled the mounting holes for the hatches then filled them with thickened epoxy. Touched up two or three voids on the rub rails as well.

    Tonight I finished sanding the outside and the bottoms of the rub rails.
    Swept everywhere, sat the canoe to the side and swept the table and removed the blocks. Sat the canoe upright in the table without blocks and using a 2x4 block as a guide I drew a pencil line around the base of the bottom where the graphite line will be.
    I had thought I would borrow a laser when taping for the graphite but this was a simple and easy way I found googling around in the dark corners of the internet.
    Turned it back over and placed on blocks again and washed it with mild dish water and a scotch brite pads and rinced well with fresh water.

    Tomorow I will borrow a Herman Nelson heater and cook myself out while taping and masking. Then roll the first coat of graphite. 6oz of resin with 2oz of graphite powder sound like enough for one coat on the bottom of this 14ft canoe?

    Say I do one coat tomorow night with it 90f in the tent then 8hrs later fire up the heater again while rating breakfast and give it a second coat.... will I need to pull the masking tape and reapply or will it be ok through both coats?

    20170829_001834 (Medium). 20170829_001921 (Medium). As you can see from all the brown dots.... I had a LOT of air bubbles I cut out and filled. I will be paranoid and asking lots of questions about how to prevent this before I start the fs17.

    I borrowed a heater but it had a cracked fuel line and couldn't get it primed. Took it back and borrowed another and after some fiddling and got it going. Temps in the tent went from low 60s to high 70s registered on the thermometer mounted to one of the wall braces. I'm guessing I'm the middle of the room was mid 80s.

    Set the epoxy bottles 2ft in front of the heater outlet and was happy with how thin it got.

    Taped the line I marked last night then mixed 4 pumps of resin, 2 of medium hardner and 4 heaped plastic spoons of graphite. (I measured spoon volume beforehand and 4 heaped scoops was just over 2oz)

    20170829_230454 (Medium).
    Then peeled the edge tape off before it could cure.
    20170829_230146 (Medium).

    20170829_230244 (Medium).
    I was happy with it before I pulled the tape. But after pulling it the chine looks wavey and I see high spots of fairing that I could have sanded better.

    I'll proceed as planned... It's the bottom after all. I fear I'll end up doing alot more sanding after my first coat of primer on the top :/

    Thanks for the feedback guys [​IMG]
    I went into this project knowing it wouldn't be perfect but that doesn't seem to be as easy to remember as it should........ I'm learning and it's the "practice boat"..... I still want it to look good though with the 2 months of time into it.

    Got up this morning and light off the heater again, made breakfast and drank some coffee. Then went out and re-taped the lines and rolled the second coat on. Was only 15min late to work...... About normal :p

    You can see how I was heating the epoxy in the last picture.
    20170830_113507 (Medium). 20170830_113530 (Medium). 20170830_113555 (Medium). 20170830_113617 (Medium).

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