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integrate entropedia with ep wiki?

Discussion in 'Entropia Community' started by mastermesh, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. 711's quote over on pcf:

    Might be a chance to update the ep wiki with the entropedia stuff that the ep wiki doesn't have yet?
  2. Tass

    Tass Administrator

    Yep, yep, theoretically it is. And as a matter of fact Witte gave us the permission to use everything on Entropedia years ago.

    The challenge is not as much the pure data as it is the interface to edit and browse the data. It requires a lot of work (but still an tiny fraction of what a new platform would require) and making it as convenient as Entropedia would require a little bit of coding (but still a tiny fraction of what would be required to modernize Entropedia). And coding is something none of us current EP guys can do, we lack the skills :(

    What probably will happen is that another lonely developer will grab the Entropedia data, will spend 10 times as much work as would be required to get the same done with EP wiki, and will create another completely custom system with the same issue that Entropedia has. Worst case it'll be a commercial entity grabbing the data and abuse it for personal gain... (unfortunately Entropedia never got a proper license making it really community content...)

    However, as soon as I have a little bit more time I will look into wiki affairs again. There are so many improvements that are actually almost ready to be implemented. And EP wiki has passed 20.000.000 views last week :)
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Coincidentally I was just wondering today if there was any way to get a db dump from entropedia.
    I already exported some of the data that I am interested in and set it up locally as most of the time I visit entropedia it is down or too slow to be usable.

    If anybody does get the data I would appreciate a copy and would also be willing to help with any projects to use it on an alternative site. I have some coding experience, though mostly in MySQL/php which is not entropedia's native format.
  4. narfi

    narfi Lost

    That is what mediawiki uses though right?
  5. Amber Knightley

    Amber Knightley I see dead people.

    Sure is, afaik!
  6. Finnigan

    Finnigan True Neutral Kaotic

  7. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    In case it was missed, the Entropia DB was just given away today on EF. I just grabbed it for safe keeping. Uncompressed it is 2.2GB mysql file
  8. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    Aha! See above! :D
  9. thanks for the link. Wow. Haven't looked at entropiaforum in a looong time. Funny to see how old the newest posts are over there. Last post in 'ask mindark' section is from February of last year. wonder what other goodies are under the downloads section of ef? Here's a blast from the past: http://www.entropiaforum.com/downloads/thegate200304.pdf
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
  10. Tass

    Tass Administrator

    If you want to read old magazines: http://www.entropiaplanets.com/wiki/Entropia_Universe_Magazines :)

    Now that everyone has the Entropedia data, what to do?

    I had a look at a couple of things, I'm not 100% sure yet but I think we could integrate the data in a couple of ways:

    1. add it to a db and add queries to wiki pages that display the db content, that would be relatively fast but read only
    2. create a new interface to display and edit db data in wiki pages, that would require someone to code it (php mostly, js for fancy frontend stuff), result could be similar to Entropedia but would have the same issues as Entropedia (insane amount of work to create and maintain), but would still be better than a completely new website because everything else is there already (user management, discussion system, all that content beyond pure tabular db data, etc)
    3. integrate the data as deeply as possible with the existing mediawiki system, that would be a lot more work than 1. but still a lot less work than 2., would not require custom code, would made the data available for all the features developed already (maps, embedding in forum posts, ...), editing would not be as convenient as Entropedia was once without custom code but custom code could be added over time and would be less work than in 2. and of course a tiny fraction of the work that would be required to create a new website similar to Entropedia

    I'd go with 3. which would unfortunately mean a lot of work for RAZER & me and we are really busy already, unless more people volunteer to master mediawiki, it's easy, really, and it's used in many companies and other orgs nowadays, you can add it to your CV ;)

    I think, mediawiki and how we use it for EP wiki is by far superior to Entropedia or anything alike, and always will be because 100s of people are working to improve it, the only point where Entropedia thingies can be better is manipulating tabular data and filtering such data, but as said many times already we could have the same on EP wiki with a tiny fraction of the custom code that makes Entropedia, just needs someone to do it.
  11. ep wiki is slower then entropedia...
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. While the depth and functionality of these wikis are great in principle, becoming slow and bloated can defeat the purpose.
    I would guess that the majority of user visits are for a simple query such as an item's stats and this needs to be available near instantly without multiple clicks.
    I'm not sure if the speed problems at entropedia are just because the server isn't up to the job or because there are issues with the code but unless you have the human and server resources I would warn against being over-ambitious.
  13. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    My primary concerns are that when it comes to dealing with data and MindArk, you're always fighting a losing battle. MA won't share what they changed, and as such, you'll always be behind, as every new VU, randome stats were altered, and you never know where to look.

    Where other games have pretty static loot tables, MA keeps fucking with shit (oh, sorry, "balancing the economy"), and as a result you're forever behined. Add the RCE component to that, meaning that someone who discovered something profitable would never ever ever release this to /world, and you can see why none of the wikis for EU ever really went anywhere. We rely on user data, and with the loot tables being as massive as they are, the good stuff that loots from certain mobs will probably never make its way into the wikis.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Amber Knightley

    Amber Knightley I see dead people.

    admin, please comment!

    That is one thing that made me turn around after editing some here.
    I tried now again this week and things appear faster than last time I gave up.

    But for some reason this morning Entropedia is faast!

    If you want EP to become superior something has to be done about the speed here!
    I've complained about this in the past but in vain at that point.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Admin no longer controls those servers. But the new people in charge are working on migrating things to a different server/host.
  16. Amber Knightley

    Amber Knightley I see dead people.

    if admin is no longer in control he can no longer call him self admin :rolleyes (2):
  17. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    He should go back to being called ViagraFalls :)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    There's a ViagraFalls users already ;)
  19. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Better now?
  20. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    lol :)

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