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HANGAR OWNERS - The Long Wait

Discussion in 'Entropia News' started by MindStar9, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    HANGAR OWNERS - The Long Wait

    "Well obviously, when space opens up, it's going to be a
    lucrative business to own a hangar, that's for sure." - Frank/MindArk

    The above quote from Frank at MindArk comes directly from a video interview conducted at the E-for-All convention in Los Angeles in October 2007 by Entropian Dion Red Strike. The comment is made at the very beginning of the video at 0:35.

    2-HangarGfxHdr.
    Updated Hangar Style​

    I had an opportunity to spend some time with a few of the hangar owners to get a general overview of where they're at right now after the opening of space. There have been questions raised as to what the function of the hangar owners will now be since the introduction of Motherships, along with Space Thrusters for Quad-Wing Interceptors and Sleipnirs that will allow people to travel through space. What follows is an accounting directly from some of the members of the Hangar Owners Group that presents a sort of timeline if you will of what has occurred over the past couple of years.

    As a side-note: Out of the current 70 hangar owners, only 39 are members of this group, and only a handful have participated in this undertaking. Also, not all hangar owners offer a space flight service, and therefore, may not be represented as such in the content of this article. Those who have offered the following data also do not speak on behalf of all hangar owners, but rather a small group. Going forward, when using the term hangar owners, it refers to those in the Hangar Owners Group who have actively participated in the activities presented in this article.

    FROM THE BEGINNING

    Since August 2009, the hangars stopped offering functionality, and after VU10 and CryEngine2, the hangar buildings themselves were removed. From that point forward, the hangars remained restricted and non-functional, leaving the owners without the ability to do anything with the deed whatsoever.

    20 August 2009 - VU10 Content List - In Development (near the bottom of the list)​

    "Due to the crowded space around Calypso in this phase of resettlement, civilian space traffic has been grounded. Also, hangars have not been rebuilt yet. Travel between CND and Calypso is currently serviced by a teleport service. A one way ticket is 25 PED. This fee will be distributed among the hangar owners when civilian space travel service is reinstated. NOTE: This is a temporary solution.

    Crystal Palace is closed at the moment and travel there has been suspended."

    The hangar owners initially had high hopes when MindArk indicated that all systems would be back by the end of 2010, but as we know, this didn't happen. On January 14, 2011 Hanne|SDS addressed the Hangar Owners Group in their private sub-forum at the Planet Calypso Forum with the following:

    "We haven't finished the planning period yet, so I don't really have any direct ETA, but creating the hangars and the spaceships themselves is quite high on our priority list as Marco mentioned."

    As a form of compensation, MindArk decided to pay all hangar owners the teleport fees collected from participants. Initially, they received fees from Club NEVERDIE only, as Crystal Palace was temporarily shut down for several months after VU10 and the CryEngine2 conversion took place on 17 Aug 2009, and not reinstated until 18 Nov 2009 (see VU10.3 Content List). To this day, the hangar owners are uncertain if the fees they received were 100% of the income generated by the TP transports, or just a smaller percentage.

    Initially, the fees were made in a lump sum payment every 6 months or so. With Hanne's support, the hangar owners were able to persuade MindArk to make daily paymements instead of lump sums over longer periods of time. In this respect, they were able to gain a better idea of the traffic patterns between Calypso and CND, and later Crystal Palace. Also, when a new planet was released, there was a brief increase in daily fees.

    The following chart shows a graph of the daily payouts. The left column of the chart represents the amount of PEDs paid out, and the bottom portion of the chart represents the number of days (76) from 2 Dec 2010 to 16 Feb 2011. After the 100+ PED spike, and a short period that followed the Next Island launch, the income seemed to have stabilized within the 30 PED range.

    NOTE: The payment of teleporter fees ceased on 21 June 2011 with the implementation of space travel.

    TP-FeesPymtChart.

    Many within the community speculated that the income received from these payments was rather large in size, when in fact hangar owners have indicated that it was not the case at all. Also, many of the working pilots who offered flight services prior to VU10 and the CryEngine2 conversion shared that these fees were much less than what they were making with their businesses.

    On 19 April 2011, the updated hangars were reintroduced (see Planet Calypso Content Release 2011.2), which finally came with an unrestricted deed that gave the hangar owners the option to once again be able to trade or sell their hangars. The newly revised architecture of the hangar came with a Bar area, along with a Local Trader, Auctioneer, Storage Management, and Local Crafter. However, the new facility did not give the hangar owners the ability to place shopkeepers in front of the hangar as before, and they were unable to place items in the secondary display area. This was considered to be a bug that has yet to be fixed despite support cases being filed.

    4HangarBarArea.
    Hangar Bar Area and NPCs​

    8-HangarSecondaryArea.
    Hangar Secondary Area and Ship Landing Zone​

    On 8 June 2011, MindArk's Latest Buzz Bulletin was published at the Entropia Universe website hailing that space was imminent, with an introduction of a two-part contest. It was stated that three Motherships would be given away as prizes for the highest Hall of Fame related respectively to Hunting, Mining, and Crafting.

    The secondary part of the contest included the opportunity to win a Medium Fighter (Quad-Wing Interceptor) for the highest loot acquired killing certain mobs on each of the respective four planets. This contest ran from 8 June 2011 to 20 June 2011, and ended the day before space would be released. The news for the hangar owners however, only stated that they would receive some special treats in the space release, as well as a subsequent release.

    The announcement did not come without concerns from the hangar owners, as they still did not know what special treats referred to, and exactly what type of ship they would be provided with. What concerned them however was the fact that 3 more Motherships were going to be made available at auction on the day of the space release, and once they were purchased, MindArk was going to place another Mothership at auction every 24 hours with no notification as to when this would stop.

    With this news, the hangar owners started feeling restless, and still uncertain as to what their role would be as a result of newly introduced spacecraft capable of transporting a lot of people. In a subsequent Latest Buzz Bulletin, MindArk also stated that there would be new entrepreneurial opportunities, and that space pilots should prepare themselves for a new age in the transportation services. This only increased concern for the hangar owners, as well as continued confusion as to what their role would be in the space transportation business.

    Prior to space being released, MindArk officials were offering space previews (trips into space) to random individuals at Twin Peaks and Port Atlantis, yet still no mention of, or contact with hangar owners with any information as to their role in space travel. Stress started setting in, as well as concern about the heavy investments that were made in acquiring their hangars. The future of many who had developed a space travel business was hanging in the balance, as well as fear that their investments would be lost.

    About a week or so passed before hangar owners received an email from MindArk inviting them to tour space at a specific time. It was during the tour that they learned that their ship would be an Unlimited Privateer, which was shown to them by MindArk's CEO (Jan Welter Timkrans) via his Official avatar Sera Witchspade Connor.

    Some of the hangar owners were able to get a closer look at the Privateer, which was much smaller than other ships that were being introduced (except the Quad-Wing Interceptor), and concerns grew even more with regard to what their transport capabilities would be, and how their space flight businesses would indeed become lucrative as Frank had indicated. Hangar owner Wanderer posted video footage taken on his tour with MA's CEO Connor, which you can see here and shows what the Privateer looks like.

    Space is Released

    SpacePhoto-EU-Website.
    Space Photo from Entropia Universe Website​

    On 21 June 2011 space was released, and it was further learned that Quad-Wing Interceptors and Sleipnirs with a Space Thruster attached to them would be capable of entering space and traveling not only to space stations and Motherships, but also to other planets. The introduction of Space Thrusters now gave individuals an opportunity to travel on their own in space, as opposed to hiring a space flight service to transport them. This new feature now became an alarming concern to hangar owners, as they still had no idea what their role would be.

    The hangar owners had waited in anticipation of the space release to see just what the special treats would be, as well as if there would be changes to their hangars. However, with the release of space, they received nothing, and panic started setting in for many. No ship, no hangar changes (fixes), and no special treats.

    Upon hearing that there was a MindArk official at Twin Peaks, several hangar owners went there in hopes of getting an explanation. They were told that they would be getting an email with information, as well as an Unlimited Space Thruster which would be very rare. Within an hour, they received their email where it was revealed that they would not be getting their ships yet, but that it would be in a future update.

    It was becoming even more evident that hangar owners and their space flight businesses were in jeopardy, especially after learning that Motherships were capable of carrying 50 people, which is a considerable number more than the previous hangar owner ships that carried 5 people, including the pilot.

    Also, it was learned that the Motherships were multi-level and had a bay where smaller spacecraft could land, offering yet another service. In the meantime, the (L) Space Thrusters blueprint had become less expensive to craft, which meant more people were now given an opportunity to experience space without having to hire a space flight service.

    If this wasn't enough, it was soon learned that Motherships were also capable of summoning people from planets to the ship if they were on the guest list, without ever having to travel through space to get there. It was also announced on 22 June 2011 at Entropia Forum by Bjorn at MindArk that after the last Unlimited Mothership is purchased at auction (with no timetable as to when that would be), future Motherships introduced into the universe would be (L) items.

    On top of all of this, it was revealed in the space release that all of space would be lootable PvP, with the potential of further diminishing the prospect of business by scaring away customers who would not want to engage in unsafe travel, as well as risk loss of any lootable items in the course of transporting them from one destination to another.

    The plight of the hanger owners became even grimmer after a chat with MindArk Official Connor at Port Atlantis where it was further revealed that their ships when delivered in a future update would not have the capability of landing on planets until a later stage. They also learned that a function for the hangars other than storing their ship hadn't yet been decided, but was being looked into.

    The hangar owners feel that their investments are in jeopardy if there will be no viable service that will set them apart from what has already been made available with the introduction of space and the various means of space travel already presented. It was in this vein that some of the hangar owners got together to come up with an alternative plan for space travel that might still offer them hope for that lucrative business that Frank spoke of.

    A PROPOSAL ON THE TABLE

    After realizing that all of space is lootable PvP, some hangar owners are proposing that they be given the exclusive and unique ability to cloak. This unique ability would basically enable safe passage to all participants who have no desire to engage in lootable PvP and risk losing their goods.

    Details are as follows:
    • every hangar ship will have a cloak generator as part of the ship, and not as an attachable device
    • upon activation, it would make the ship invisible
    • this feature could come with a reasonable amount of decay, or burn additional fuel as a result
    • the expense should not be so great that it would cause them to charge their passengers a lot more PED for safe passage
    • the ship will be uncloaked when (1) someone shoots one of the guns on board; (2) the ship lands on a planet or space station; or (3) the pilot turns off cloaking manually
    There are certain assumptions that come along with this part of the proposal:
    • that warp drives when released don't end up being vehicle TP chips that instantly teleports a ship from planet to planet, but only necessary to access space, or travel faster within space
    • that only hangar ships will get this cloaking ability even if (L) Privateer class ships come out
    There is also discussion going on that perhaps compensation from fees should continue as it relates to FOMA. Prior to VU10, there was no teleporter available from CND to Calypso, so it was a source of income for the pilots. Now that MindArk has added a teleporter from FOMA to Calypso, they have taken away that revenue from hangar owners. Some hangar owners also think that the entry and exit fees (2 PED each) should be included as well, but specific details haven't been defined as yet.

    Prior to the current cloaking proposal, hangar owners had submitted a more elaborate proposal to MindArk. It was added as an attachment to a support case, as well as sent directly to Kim at MindArk, and to date have had no responses. This was before the implementation of space, as well as learning that all of space was lootable PvP. The previous Space System Proposal is available for review if you have any interest in learning what it contained.

    5-HangarWaitingRoom.
    Hangar Waiting Area​

    The hangar owners are still in limbo at this point, other than receiving their Unlimited Space Thruster, but as indicated in posts by Kim at MindArk at the Entropia Forum, it is uncertain whether there will be an update prior to MindArk going on their Summer vacation the early part of July. This pertains to both space and/or content updates.

    NextSpaceUpdate-KimAtMA.

    NextSpaceUpdate-KimAtMA-2.

    The fate of the hangar owners is still uncertain, and with a ship being delivered in a future space update that won't allow them to land on planets except at a later stage, they are challenged to see a positive outcome for their businesses at this point in time.

    Will their investments be for naught, along with the seemingly fading lucrative business spoke of by Frank from MindArk at the E-for-All convention in October 2007? Will recent events cause potential future investors to think twice?

    One thing is for certain - our universe is dynamic!
     
    • Like Like x 6
  2. Dee

    Dee

    One would have thought the hangar owners would have been the pioneers of space.. But we are still waiting.. And waiting..
     
  3. ...and waiting :sleep:
     
  4. Yeah no to mention that the pioneers of the first space preview ended up being some
    randoms from Twin Peaks and Port Atlantis.
     
  5. FatherJack

    FatherJack El Diablo

    http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_Ops_Cloaking_Device_II

    Hangar owners should get the equivalent for their ship, and their prices could be adjusted accordingly, safer travel = greater cost

    Indeed, but gladly I do recognise a pilot or two I used from before VU10 and would use their services without question
     
  6. EwoK

    EwoK Southern Fortress Engineering

    Wow I read the other proposal and it was a very good set of ideas. I really feel for all the hangar owners especially though who were running good services/businesses prior to VU10.
     
  7. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Explorer

    {contrarian mode on}
    Frankly hangar owners are making a big fuss over nothing. They got paid for the time their hangars were out of use. Not many other professions get such a privileged treatment.

    No one knows how the hangar system will work in the modern space system but I think most of us realise MA will design it in such a way that hangar owners can run a business for profit.
    {/contrarian mode off}

    "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose."
    - Yoda
     
  8. Neuromancer

    Neuromancer Brainstormers Official Brain Glue

    It sounds like hanger owners have some unexpected hangovers. There is enough drama here to make anyone turn to a bottle for comfort
     
  9. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Every forum environment has it's own unique dynamic when it comes to discussions, and everyone doesn't participate in every forum available to them, or associated with our universe. Therefore, since I have created a thread here as well as at PCF and the Arkadia forum, I have elected to share my thoughts on this topic at each location, but not without the following ...

    WARNING ... long-ass post, and if you would rather not take the time, I can appreciate that, but please don't post and complain about the wall of text as your contribution - thank you for that consideration!

    ====================================

    First, I want to thank the hangar owners who gave their input, as well as all of the data that was collected in order to produce this report, it's very much appreciated. As participants in this universe, we often tend to only have the luxury of looking at and evaluating things from the outside, but this process gave me a bit of a different perspective on a few things.

    As individuals who engage in this universe, everything we do is a choice, whether it's adapting and going with the flow (liking it or not), or standing our ground because of our beliefs, it's still a choice, and no less important than the next person who makes their choices. We have the freedom to choose what our level of play will be, as well as the depth of our investments, no matter what our intended reasons are.

    We have seen the value of many things change over the years, but value is based on what we as participants determine something is worth, not MindArk or the Planet Partners who only present us with these opportunities. Anything new that provides us with a different level of game play will generally have an initial higher value. If it's not one-of-a-kind and more will flood the market either at a developer's hand, or perhaps due to blueprints and crafting, we often witness value changing that allows more of us to consider personal investment to enhance our game play.

    However, we have certainly seen some things in our universe gain in value over the years based on function, features, and opportunities. This is true for hangars whose value we have seen consistently rise since they were first introduced. Some made their purchase purely for investment, while others pursued a business.

    Many of us have seen, and maybe even experienced some of the challenges that have come with the space flight business over the years, but these challenges were not exclusive just to passengers, but also space pilots and hangar owners. As with all potential business endeavors, there is freedom to create those elements and features that will gain you the most benefit through advertising and marketing your service. Whether it's purchasing a land area and designing an environment that invites participants through events or other means, or buying a larger piece of real estate such as Medusa's Head, or setting up a shop at a mall (or elsewhere), or providing some sort of service for any of the professions, it's an opportunity, but certainly not without risk.

    When someone invests in our universe, whether it's incredible sums or not, the very basic expectation is that there will be a continuance of being able to build and develop what you're investing in with a valid hope that it will turn into something lucrative. Before I express my thoughts about other investments, I would like to address the hangar owners situation first since my report highlighted them specifically.

    Hangar investments have certainly increased over the years, and some hangar owners invested upwards of 150K and more for their opportunity to build a future with the potential of achieving success. As mentioned in the report, this opportunity was taken away from them in August 2009, without access to their deeds and the ability to sell their hangars if this was something they wanted to consider, including those who had just made investments without the intent of developing a business.

    For nearly two years, the hangar owners have been left without access to their deeds, and certainly for some without the ability to continue developing their business. Despite the fact that MindArk decided to pay all hangar owners the teleport fees relating to travel to CND and Crystal Palace, CP was offline for 4 months before being reinstated. While we might think that these fees may have been somewhat of a bonus for those hangar owners who didn't develop a business, we really don't know publicly whether they used them privately or not, and were able to make a bit of income themselves.

    The bottom-line is, a business was stopped dead in its tracks without any recourse but to wait to see what the outcome would be. The compensation from the teleporter fees from CND and CP, according to some of the hangar owners who had businesses, ended up being less than what they were making on a daily basis while active. Now, with space being implemented, their continuing and future opportunity is in the hands of MindArk and how they will determine what the role of the hangar owners and space pilots will be by what they decide to give them.

    At this point in time, we have all seen what has been released with space opening up already, and many have had the opportunity to experience space on their own with the additional equipment required, or tagged along with others who have more elaborate spacecraft. Space is exciting, and I personally like that more will have the opportunity to experience it in one way or another, but I can't help but also think about the exclusive space flight business that many of the hangar owners enjoyed who risked a hefty investment to development it, only to have it seemingly pulled out from under them.

    I say seemingly based on what information is currently available regarding what has been told to the hangar owners about what they will be receiving from MindArk. So far, it's an Unlimited Space Thruster, with a preview of what their ship will look like, but they have not received their ships, nor know when it will be delivered, other than in a future update. On top of this, they have been told that when the ship is delivered they will not be able to land on the planets until a later stage.

    I realize that I reiterated a few things that I had in my report, but it's to make a valid point, and that being ... hangar owners made hefty investments in an opportunity with an expectation that this opportunity would be there for them to develop in whatever manner they chose. For many, their business was cut off, with compensation that didn't meet what an average daily income provided, nor what the potential could have been if the business was allowed to continue.

    Now, all of space opens up with not only themselves as competitors within their chosen business, but potentially every single one of us who can afford to purchase our own Space Thrusters and travel through space without paying a service. I don't know about you, but unless MindArk has some future special treat in store for hangar owners that will give them back the opportunity to be a viable space flight service, I wouldn't want to be one of them right now.

    Having an Unlimited Space Thruster and a fancy ship larger than a Sleipnir and Quad-Wing Interceptor, but smaller than a Mothership and other large vessels that have been previewed for the future, it doesn't quite compensate for the potential their businesses had in the past. It basically gives them a better toy, but negates the business aspect of what their intended investments were for, and to me, that's incredibly disrespectful to hangar owners who in good faith made their investments with reasonable expectation that it wouldn't be looked at as trivial, because that's the impression for many at this point in time.

    Now, do I think other professions got the shaft as well ... absolutely, and I also feel that they should have been compensated in some way too. We forget that investments come in many forms, it's not just about laying out PED to purchase an item, or a land area, or a piece of real estate. It can be investment in skills (natural or otherwise), time, effort, talent, and creativity, not to mention also providing a service to many of us in the community with perhaps hopes of realizing success and potential profit as well.

    All professions require some sort of investment, but for those who go beyond normal play in our universe and invest time, effort and real money into developing a business, they too have reasonable expectation that the opportunity they invested in will be there for them to not only continue developing, but to enjoy as well.

    It is unfortunate, but other professions and businesses within the beauty industry, taming, tailoring, makeup and face mask creation (and probably more) have all suffered at the hands of development. I'm taking into consideration here that being a pioneer in what MA is doing with this unique MMO and CE2 is probably not easy, and that they are literally forging a somewhat untraveled path (according to what I have heard), but ...

    Perhaps more forethought and 2nd-step mentality planning could be given to how decision making with development along the way has impact on game play, and certainly on investments. It just seems at times that there is no rhyme or reason to some of the content we get, other than to generate potential cash flow for developers. Granted, EU is a business with the right to make profit, but the fact that we're dealing with an RCE makes it something far more than just your average game.

    My hope is ... that MA will give a great deal of thought to how they plan on playing out this scenario with the hangar owners, and that their proposal be given some consideration - even if it ends up being something different than what has been proposed, so long as the end result is that their investments have not been in vain, and that the opportunity they invested in will still be there for them to develop into a continuing business that will prove to be lucrative for them as Frank from MindArk alluded to in his interview.

    I also hope that MindArk will give a great deal of thought to how they will re-introduce those systems that have also taken away opportunities from other professions, and in some way compensate them for the neglect and disrespect that I feel they have been given with seemingly trivializing their investments as well.

    To those who will say that we enter this universe at our own risk, and to adapt and get on with it ... it seems easy for you as well to trivialize the importance of another participant's investments and choices based on your own game play. However, this universe is globally-diverse with a myriad of intents and purposes, and doesn't operate according to any one person's principles or virtual ideals, but rather the freedom to make choices, and to have reasonable expectations that those choices will at least be given some modicum of respect.

    I just hope it all works out for everyone.
     
  10. Calin

    Calin Due for an Ultra-Uber Loot.

    Well said!

    MA has always seemingly wanted people to put money into EU to have businesses and offer services. Many people have put in LARGE amounts of money to do this. The fact that MA doesn't seem to give a damn about these people, or really any of us, takes away a lot of the willingness to "invest" in anything in EU. When they can take things away or change them on a whim with no regard for the good of their customers they destroy large chunks of trust. A game with a RCE is based on trust in the entity that runs the economy.

    The hangar owners and many others have put in quite substantial amounts of money to participate in EU in a myriad of ways. Their investments are important. Very important to all of us. What I mean here isn't just whether they can make a profit or not, but whether the game as a whole is worth putting money into without having to consider it a tremendous risk simply because MA decides to change something without considering the consequences of their actions on the customers.

    This thread is based around the experiences of the hangar owners, but what if MA suddenly without warning or explanation, pulled Mod Merc's, Mod Faps, and Shadow armor from the game and said something along the lines of... "Maybe they will be back in some form someday." It's very much the same thing.

    These examples are some of the high dollar things affected. Let's not forget that some of the lower priced items can have similar problems and can mean just as much. Not everyone can afford to put thousands of dollars into EU. What about someone who can afford to put in 100usd? For many people that's a pretty big chunk of change. Hell, you could get many months on a subscription game for that, or you could buy a couple new boxed games.

    People risk real money every time they deposit. Large or small amounts, it doesn't matter when it comes to the trust factor. We know we take financial risks any time we deposit simply due to the standard dynamics of the game. What we need to be able to feel comfortable with is that MA will not add any additional risks for us and will not simply screw us over.

    "Come to EU. Invest a lot of money. We might just take it from you. You may or may not get it back." Not good advertising in my view.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. TimUnleashed

    TimUnleashed Southern Fortress Engineering

    Excellent article MS9. I love it when you do research and put together all the historical facts and we can easily see the story so far. Helps us very easily have context when we look at current debates, and that's so valuable to the community! All the time you must have spent verifying everything you said - now nobody else that trusts your accuracy needs to do the same thing!
     

  12. Hello all.

    Thank you to you for this great article Mindstar. This is a very good job as a journalist. If you need to make other articles about the pilots, you can call me too. I am in general agreement with you.

    As you may know, i am one of the young pilots of the universe. Some may have already flown with me or with my friends. We bought our hangar unlimited with our unlimited spaceship before the withdraw of MA. That was before the Republic of the universe we ban flying. With the progress of the conquest of the universe and the changes that were made, after all these long years, it is likely that the price becomes more of 400k when leaving the garage. Currently, we do not know.

    MA has taken everything. He gave us very little and has cheated a lot on what he gave us to offset our losses. We take it for donkeys. I do not understand why it does not make us more gifts on a regular basis rather than rob us. For me it is incredible. We have not even had a small aircraft as a private unlimited wing to help us in our business space in the meantime ! Our estate deed is very important in the story of the universe. To me it is the most important in the story of the universe ! It is also very important for all investors and i hope MA is not mad. Like many of my friends, i am very anxious about the universe and we all stopped deposits !
    [​IMG]

    Currently our ship is being repaired in the Republic of the universe.
    Many improvements have been made for him to continue his mission for long.

    It should always be:
    - fastest
    - the most resistant
    - the most dangerous
    - the prettiest
    - the more manageable
    - the one that consumes the least
    - the most profitable
    - one that can carry as many passengers
    - one that can transport more goods
    - one that can go anywhere in the universe

    It should also be equipped with the best navigation systems and fighting for it to remain the mythical ship that has always been: the best ! I think it's very long for all these repairs. I hope the engineers know what they do because i find that there are many bottles in the bar (...) As expected i hope he can destroy everything in its path and restore peace in the republic of the universe. This should allow the general transportation between all the planets can be easily serve all and all.

    While waiting to get my spaceship i'm flying on a Sleipnir that i bought myself (not a gift from MA!). I am a taxi in a small suburb of the universe, avoiding the killers. It allows me to think about other things and rediscover the joys of the world gradually. When you fly with me, do not forget to fasten your belt. Take a ride in my bar, you will understand why i say that (...)


    no spelling / no photo / thank you for your attention / soon here and in the stars
    as usual, sorry for my English / Osiris - intergalactic pilot from Paris [​IMG]
    pilot website / TP Treasure Island North Hangar B - Hangar 8
     
  13. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Part of the discussion going on in a "Hangar Price Check" thread at PCF is what use the hangars will have, especially since the ship that the hangar owners will be receiving (Privateer) is smaller than a Mothership, but larger than a Quad-Wing Interceptor. When the hangar owners receive their ships in a future update, they will not be able to land them on planets until a later stage. Therefore, the discussion turned to possibilities of how it would all work.

    A plausible speculation was that maybe the televator located near the secondary area taking you to the satellite level atop the hangar might be converted into a teleporter that would transport paying customers up to the hangar owner's ship in space where there might be some sort of hangar landing zone, or ... the Privateers will be able to land on the space stations after transporting passengers and allowing them to teleport down to a planet.

    The discussion then turned to whether or not the Privateer would fit in the landing zone of the current hangars. Someone mentioned a photo that MA had published along with the message that there was enough space to store a spaceship ... see photo below, which was provided by Chrome in the PCF thread.

    MAsPhotoOfWaitingRoom.

    What's wrong with this picture is that it's not a landing zone whatsoever, but rather the inside waiting room of the hangar - notice the ceiling fans, and tables and seating area. This is actually the upper level from the bar area, where there is a window that looks out onto the actual outside landing zone.

    Following is Wanderer's video footage from the tour he was given by MA's CEO EU avatar Sera Witchspade Connor that clearly shows the Privateer and its size compared to the Sleipnir, as well as what looks like a Quad-Wing Interceptor.

    After the video, I have included some photos of a hangar that clearly depicts certain areas as being inside the hangar, and certainly not a landing zone as what might have been alluded to with MA's published photo. There are also photos of the actual outside landing zone to show the area size.

    The photos are to determine if you think that the Privateer will fit into the actual landing zone of the hangar based on what you saw in Wanderer's video:


    FOLLOWING ARE VARIATIONS OF THE PHOTO MA PUBLISHED
    WHICH IS ACTUALLY NOT THE LANDING ZONE BUT
    THE WAITING AREA INSIDE THE HANGAR

    [​IMG]
    Waiting room inside hangar - upper deck from bar area!​
    And with ceiling fans - so no landing zone.​

    [​IMG]
    View of right side of Waiting Area with tables and seating!​

    [​IMG]
    Left side of Waiting Area with window out to actual open landing zone!​

    [​IMG]
    Closer look at window from inside the Waiting Area looking out to actual landing zone!​

    [​IMG]
    Outside open landing zone!​

    [​IMG]
    VTOL in outside landing zone for comparison!​

    [​IMG]
    Aerial of actual outside landing zone!​

    [​IMG]
    Another aerial of actual outside landing zone!​

    We really don't know the actual size of the Privateers, but what is known, is that they are smaller than a Mothership, and larger than a Quad-Wing Interceptor. I would say many of us have seen an Interceptor, so perhaps use that as a visual comparison as well, and maybe someone with an Interceptor could actually lower their ship into the hangar landing zone to see what kind of space we're looking at.

    In my opinion, there's no way the Privateer will fit in that open landing zone. And it makes sense, because it was stated in my Hangar Owners article that MA's CEO avatar Connor made the public statement at Twin Peaks to hangar owners that they don't know what the use of hangars will be, but they are looking into it. I don't know about you, but that says a lot to me.

    Photos were taken by a couple of the hangar owners who worked with me on the article, so thanks to them. [​IMG]
     
  14. Lykke TheNun

    Lykke TheNun Lootius bless you all!

    You go on vacation, and what happens? Purple magic happens.

    As always a well written and very profound researched article, MindStar! A lot of things I wasn't aware of!

    Thanks!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Hey MS9,

    My dear do you have writers cramp yet ? :giggle:
    All I can say is wow ! That was a very long read.
    A lot of effort went into this article and yet still I am not sure what to say.

    I have mixed feelings about the whole hangar/pilot situation tbh.
    Let us see what the future holds ... I mean when what has been stated finally arrives and then from there on in.
     
  16. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Thanks Lykke (welcome back from vacation) and Viper ... lots I didn't know either, so it was an interesting process to uncover all of this stuff, but I have the Hangar Owners Group to thank for their assistance with this, as well as the great photos they took for me since I'm on Arkadia, it's really appreciated.

    I have to agree that there is still more to learn, especially with how this will unfold when MA finally does the update that will give the hangar owners their ship, and also when the "later stage" will end up being when they can land on planets.

    I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all works out.
     
  17. The Hangar Owners have been given a piece of crap that has less armor and durability than a Sleipnir Mk I.

    What MA have handed us isn't a Privateer. It's the ships dingy. :mad:

    Furthermore, despite the fact that I hadn't left Calypso for over a week, there obviously weren't enough parking spaces around the Calypso Space Station, so my ship was dumped at CND.

    And it's still at CND because, apart from the fact that I cannot be bothered to go and collect it, unlike the ship that was taken away from us, it isn't even ready to fly.
     
  18. red

    red

    you forgot about the 2000 ped in terminal value and 500 ped in oil (fully repaired and full fuel tank) the old ships had, mandy. neither the oil or the ped have been returned, as of yet. a minor thing, perhaps, but still something else that was taken away.
     
  19. I am felling somewhat sorry for the hangar owners & pilots at this point.
    It seems that MA has really screwed up the situation somewhat for them vs balance in the universe.
    This will surely decrease the worth of their investments.
     
  20. Norbert

    Norbert Cartoon Head

    oh dear :/, hope things work out ok for the hangar owners.
     
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