Entropia Universe: Entropia Universe Stable Estates

Discussion in 'Entropia News' started by RAZER, Jun 30, 2014.

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  1. Oh, when I say "special", I mean "retarded".

    So feel free to remove the "Optimistic" rating from my previous post. :p
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  2. If you mean this quoted, then the optimistic rating is correct in terms of being "special" if history has taught us anything over the last almost decade now. See the lacking confidence and faith as a result of this same outcome continuously ? :wink:

    The initial release of the new chat UI that such a big fuss was made over and the number of months (The better part of a year) it took to develop sort of special is more likely to be a better way to put it.

    ie. Closer to the informal/urban meaning of unhinged/demented.

    Maybe MindArk and Co. will do it right this time?

    Who knows .... If anything it is what most people keep coming back for to-date; To see the village idiots MindArk and Co. on parade with their new act boasting they have made the next famous stage playwright that will go down in the history books.

    Do I have hope? Sure I do, those who are involved with MindArk are human after all.
    Do I have faith and confidence in MindArk? Its not quantifiable but they are human so it is there.

    Am I a sucker for punishment? Isn't everyone who offers someone else something at a loss to some degree :tongue:

    PS. When I say Co,
    MindArk doies have their 1+Mil registered handful of active/invested supporters who wouldn't even make up a quantifiable poercentage of the game consumer market population playing MMOs that are happy to live in their comfort zones, continue dumping money into the service and willing to justify by any means possible how delighted they are at taking it up the arse from MindArk without lube being used by applauding any outcome produced.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2014
  3. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    Yes I know you did. Special is the only word you can use for a game developer who released a patch where the basic movement animations don't work. This is thanks to their "zero testing initiative" - its a new corporate buzz phrase - apparently it saves time and money so is a win win corporate practice ;)
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  4. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Aww McC ... I knew exactly what you meant in your post, and since the "optimistic" rating was the only one I felt came even close to what I know you meant, then that is what I chose. :tongueout:

    No matter how pumped up MindArk gets about what's in the pipeline (and I consider Calypso part of MA), based on history continuing to repeat itself, the pipeline should be pretty rusty by now. As it is, the server blow-up shows just how effective they are at infrastructure, especially advertising for a year or longer that they were "improving" it to enhance stability. Well, we found out just how stable they got it.

    On a side-note ... I just want to make it clear that my posts are not to persuade others to leave EU or to play any other games (I only play one), and really don't have an issue with those who continue to have fun throwing their money into the MA coffers as has been pointed out to me in PM ad nauseum.

    The point of my posts, if I even care to contribute in a discussion, is to add something of value from critical thinking, personal experience and observation, and what I know to be truth. However, I know only too well that there are those who are challenged to accept what is contributed, no matter how much supportive evidence anyone presents because it doesn't fit into their beliefs.

    There's a psychological term for that ... "Cognitive Dissonance"

    "Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong. When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted. It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance. And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize, ignore and even deny, anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief."

    On-Topic ... I have several friends who have done very well investing in EU (Anhithe, Narfi to name a couple, and others like John Knight and the Southern Fortress Engineering team), but my contention is, that it's almost a requirement to heavily invest before you begin to see any type of reasonable return on your investments. The concern is for the average player (which I'm relatively certain we can agree on outnumbers those at the top who are heavily invested), and that they (average player) become (perhaps) the most frustrated with their efforts to get anywhere.

    I have nothing personal against those who have the means and the smarts to do what they do in EU and at least gain something from it. One of my dearest friends that I mentioned earlier (Anhithe) bought two of these Stable Estates (Calypso and Arkadia), but over the years, he also invested in 2 Privateers (recently sold one), the Yamato Mothership (I just returned the deed after having her for a long time, and my dear friend Zan Xander Catman and his society, The Knights of Entropia, are now the "permanent and official" crew), 3 land areas, a shop (Peddlers on Calypso), and other enhancements, so ...

    For his sake, and the sake of others who are heavily invested (along with those who invest with the intent of getting somewhere, or at least a decent return on their investments to play or otherwise), these are my suggestions to MindArk:
    • start actually communicating with the player base (your most important asset) more frequently and with more information that helps in their decision-making process, and stop just talking about it and never really following through at the level you claim you will
    • listen more to the community and take their suggestions and ideas far more seriously than what's occurred to date ... this is a game for the players not the developers ... and utilize the Planet Partners more effectively to accomplish this
    • following with the above comment ... tap into the talent, creativeness, and brilliance that you have at your fingertips within the community ... we have some incredibly intelligent, very knowledgeable and talented players, and it seems that only Dave Dobson from Arkadia is smart enough to recognize that ... other than Ed from Cyrene who grabbed a couple of us :tongueout: ... (I have something more to say about taking advantage of players, but I'll reserve that for another writing)
    • take seriously more than just the top level heavy investors, and realize that decisions made effect everyone's investments (even those who heavily invest), and stop pulling the plug on systems that lay dormant for far too long, because it builds animosity and distrust
    • if you're going to use a psychological end-game, then do it smartly, because you're not, except for your own benefit and not both you and the players
    • up your game on learning lessons, because so far, it's basically a massive fail
    • treat the players (again, your greatest asset) with more respect and care with regard to your decision-making because it can make a tremendous difference in your bottom-line
    I could probably go on more, but will just say that from the first day I entered Project Entropia on Apr 2, 2005 (my first virtual world), I couldn't get enough of it. The charisma, the charm, the spirit and the energy were like none I had ever known.

    However, over the 9+ yrs that I have been a part of PE/EU (quite involved for 8-1/2 of those yrs), I have seen an erosion that (IMO) is quite disheartening, but ... that's not to say that there isn't any good in the game today because I don't think that. What I do think I'll reserve for the article that I'm writing.

    My Bottom-Line ... if you don't care how much money you put into the game just to have fun, then continue doing so and enjoy yourselves, but then think about what you share in posts when you're feeling that frustration, or aggravation because time after time, the quality of the game isn't what it should be. If you deny that truth, then there's something off kilter with your assessment of EU.

    I think you might be surprised at what I'm writing, and will be published (eventually) at my new writing site (MSM is gone), which is all RL writing at the moment, but I decided to reserve a category for "Virtual World News" for when I'm inspired to share my thoughts, opinions, observations, experiences and evaluation. Just because I'm not as involved with PE/EU as I used to be, I think my 9+ yrs involved and keeping up with things qualifies me to have something to say about it.

    I wish everyone well, and keep on having fun. :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
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  5. dalewj

    dalewj StoryTeller/Nerd/Gamer

    Well put mindstar, this is the reason I come to this place. to get the thoughts and ideas of the people I used to play the game with. I enjoyed you all so much I couldn't leave :)

    saying that I am also into how gaming works and how companies and players interact and just wrote this on a comment of an article last week. I figured it would fit here so I add it.

    I have always said that a game has 3 parts that must always be involved together. The Players, The Devs and the gameplay. Any part that is not working towards the benefit is draining the other parts because of overwork. Any part that has to work to hard makes the other parts lazy. All parts must work at the same speed towards the best outcome. I have played MANY games since pong. I have seen some start out with three parts and one part leaves the others to rust. I have seen some games forget what is good for what is money. I have seen some games simply not care to try (Actually i have seen lots of these games).

    Good development on the dev side involves all 3 parts as much as being a good gamer means being involved in development and helping ‘your game’.
    If interested this comes from this article http://www.gamedis.ru/?p=1311 (It's in Russian be prepared to translate. Also the site is from a gamedev I now deal a lot with in Afterworld and has some interesting point of views from the dev/company side. Some you you might actually like it :)
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  6. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Just to clarify Mindstar, I haven't invested in Entropia, I put a little bit of play money in each month, but everything I have in the game is just play money, and either saved over time or earned/won etc....
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  7. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Well put yourself my friend, and I remember my association and fun in the past with members from Hunters Unlimited, an EU society I have always respected.

    I also agree with the quote you gave from something you wrote elsewhere, and while I have played many games since first entering PE/EU, I too have experienced the (what I will call) simple and priority basics that a developer must consider.

    I hope that players who have now invested in the Stable Estates won't have to wait long for everything to be fully functional. I realize that MA needs to have cash flow in order to continue developing, but (IMO), this was one of those times they delivered minimally to gain revenue, and with the documented history we already have with regard to taming, if they draw this out longer than the end of this year (when some other next big thing comes along in the form of an event to gain revenue), then I anticipate the community (or those who care about taming) will once again rise up in unison to deliver their deserved expectations and what is minimally acceptable.

    Time will tell if things are about to be turned around with Klas at the CEO helm, or a continuation of restrictions on his efforts, or what he thinks is the right thing to do, as in his previous position, because MA (Jan & Co) wants it their way, and not necessarily what's good for development or the game and the players. Klas is one of the good guys, and I hope MA has the smarts enough to let him follow through on the ideas he has about what's right without much interference. If not, then it's the same old soup warmed over.

    My best to the Stable Estate owners, and to Klas for making (hopefully) something worth waiting for, because it's the only right thing to do.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  8. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Thanks for the clarification Narfi, but I consider you one of the investors (all players invest, whether for fun or gain, however large or small), who employs enough critical thinking about what he does as a player, and knows what will work and not work, and at what level it is tolerable or acceptable.

    We may not always agree on things, but I consider you a friend, and one I have also come to respect.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
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  9. While that might be true, the same thing could be said for McCormick and yourself :)
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  10. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Not so Harmony ... but I'll speak for myself. It seems that you have missed or dismissed the parts where I am offering suggestions to MindArk to makes things better for themselves, as well as the PP's, and the players (especially), which would be a win/win all the way around. This is something I have done in many discussions where my intent is not to continually slam MA, but to offer (hopefully) some valuable content that may be thought-provoking and inspire an elevated level of critical thinking.

    Perhaps you also missed or dismissed the part where I mentioned that I don't post to persuade others to leave EU or play other games, but I know there are some where it's a common phrase to say "if you don't enjoy EU, or are unhappy with it, then just leave" ... that's not contributing to a healthy discussion about taking a long, hard look at what has happened historically, and making changes for the better.

    However, when you have enjoyed PE/EU for a period of time, and can critically think about the dynamics based on experiences and time invested, as well as see the enormous potential that EU has, then there are those of us who will continue to have something to say about it.

    I don't miss or dismiss that there are those who enjoy the game, have fun, and don't care how much they spend doing so. I have even told them (genuinely) to continue having fun many times over, but ...

    Where I get vocal is when there are those who don't even want to accept the fact there are serious issues with EU that have had dire consequences to players as a result of MA's decision-making, and continue to accept a much lower level of quality than deserved, as well as make excuses and justify a level of inferior development (at times) that shouldn't be acceptable.

    I believe in one PP in particular who has consistently and openly made the best efforts on behalf of the players, and while I don't agree with every decision, the quality of the efforts being made is there. I am quite interested to see where the future leads.

    BTW ... your smiley face at the end of your comment doesn't negate the message of the comment, nor as being humorous or any less impactful in delivering the intended message . :biggrin:
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
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  11. narfi

    narfi Lost

    I don't think it should be taken as personal or as an insult.
    We all know that we differ in opinions, and that we all have strong personalities.
    You have your ideas and opinions and way of posting, McC has his, I have mine, etc... it isn't likely that is going to change, and in that I think I strongly agree with Harmonies comment. And as such a smiley is very appropriate. :)
    If that makes sense?

    edit: just because we may disagree on different points of different discussions at different times does not mean we can't all be friends and/or respect each other.
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  12. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Point taken ... I clearly understood the smiley :thumbsup: ... which is why I added my own smiley at the ending comment, and didn't take what Harmony wrote as personal, but rather responded in kind disagreeing, instead of just leaving a disagree or other rating that might be perceived as negative.

    However, I just want to add that perhaps I was a bit presumptuous in assuming that maybe Harmony skips over the parts in my discussions that fully intend to add (hopefully) valuable contributions, along with insight that I am able to share that gives some truth and lessens speculation.

    I agree though Narfi ... that we all have opinions that are subjective based on experience, but I'll also add that some have experiences willing to be shared that are based in truth that promotes the definitive explanation of cognitive dissonance, rather than just a simple we don't agree scenario.

    On that note, I'm off to post the latest Tyranny of Dragons: Module 4 "official" trailer from Neverwinter in the other games forum because it further defines and demonstrates the new character "Scourge Warlock" that Obie and I just can't wait to play.


    Whatever game you play (especially EU), I (genuinely) hope that you fully enjoy it. :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  13. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    MS9 you mentioned a while ago you wrote an article on the psychology of entropia. Do you have a link?
  14. Hi,

    The new content in this thread has proven to be an interesting read;

    Also I will get that material translated Dalewj, I have always found your style of writing (The books and articles you have created) to be insightful and the angles/tangents/etc from which your POVs are presented to be interesting in shining new light (A way of thinking) on the subject at hand. Not too many display this ability in their writing content.

    As you know, language as powerful of a tool as it is, is something I have struggled with to-date to varying degrees since childhood with the learning difficulties (disabilities without going into details) I have had to overcome relating to this.

    So thanks for presenting this MindStar, and yes I understand cognitive dissonance with relation to a person's level of "developed" intellectual acuity, visual acuity, etc (Based on the level of their developed physical senses and extra-sensory abilities through which they experience life and the awareness of depth and detail of the realm/world around them that they are able/limited to experiencing) and then the ego's role in cognitive dissonance amonst other factors without starting to write a thesis on the subject that will probably put most to :sleep:

    I guess your seeing more than purple more often than you would like to :tongueout:

    Totally agree, most people do not see the message being delivered, merely the capsule it is presented in.
    The second step mentality helps to accomodate for this, though only to a certain degree without producing more negative side-effects from all audiences involved in the public forums arena.

    It is very much a balancing act (including the angles/tangents/etc used) and one I am not overly good at with that I constantly struggle with (Using other people's work helps in this somewhat), as it can make those with lesser understanding/comprehension/etc (This will probably not go down well now that I have said it) feel more clumsy/stupid/to-that-effect and those who do understand "likely" feel that I am doing this on purpose to make them feel this way, sort of like physchological warfare tactics (Those being my biggest concerns, there are a few others of lesser importance) ....

    Which further drives cognitive dissonance in people and brings about other "possible" opinions (and associated <insert correct term to use>) on the other side to whom the messages are specifically intended, in turn losing its intensity and/or possibily tainting and/or colouring it somewhat from what is intended.

    I suppose one way of looking at it is in terms of "electricity";
    The electricity being the intended message, the effective generation of that electricity being the form you put that message in, then the network/infrastructure (powerlines & substations etc) it must be conducted through (to distribute the message) being the forum's public arena where you get resistance through blockages and reroutes through replies and then degredation &, leakage on its course to reaching the intended destination that will use that electricity to power something.

    On occassion I run into a step-up transformer like yourself MindStar9 that occassionally cleans up the message a little and relays it again with an improved capsule to continue its journey. So thanks for that also, it does not go un-noticed.

    The same goes for you, expect this to occur to your messages and intended intentions/agenda behind them. Though I am sure your more than well aware of that :tiphat:

    This is a harder one to tackle, none of us are recruiting to other games (I see nowhere anyone saying fuck entropia you idiot your wasting your time, come play XYZ instead), moreso using the forum areas to do what a forum is intended to provide, "Share Knowledge and Experiences" so that others can share their own along with POVs and tangents of where these POVs are coming from (example) to inspire learning, growth and development on many levels to how we approach things in a game on many levels of thought on both brain & mind levels, emotionally on all levels and other impacts (including other tools we employ & resources/knowledge/experience we have and the mechanisms that assess & put in limits which are needed such as the ego for one) that feed into allowing for this awareness, learning & growth process to occur when the "time is right" for each individual and where they are up to in their own self development (Investment in self) before evolving to the next "new situation" in life & living.

    Like in the video above, dreams inspirations, investing in your mind to achieve your dream "in relation to" the economic structure that we are presented with in life to overcome in achieving these dreams, along with other points of attracting and bringing in those who will be beneficial to achieving what you set out as your intended goal. Other points aside as to approach in going a bullet-a-gate without direction and focus and having blinkers on while doing this being a shortfall not addressed in that video. (Yes it is intended that way to accomodate for the intended audience as a starting point to inspire people to take the first step and overcome FEAR of failure and/or success)

    Again turning my post into a thesis, though I feel (assume) you know what I mean (POV) and "get it"

    Back on topic:

    I too deal with stuff like this constantly on online forums and in PM in the example shown, and general forum members are not the only ones. So be at peace knowing sometimes going without reply is sometimes better than trying to explain that which won't get through "yet" as they are not yet ready to comprehend what the heck is going on for now.

    Quoted example:

    ".... You are very good at your reviews of other games. The only issue is that you are working way to hard here trying to get us to move away from Mindark to other games because you had/have issues with the game. Many here really like the game and fully understand what it is that we are doing when we deposit real money into the game. Simply it's just fun to throw that money away. I have no problem with it as many others here..and that's why we are in this game.

    Also funny thing is that other game sections of this forum were mostly created for you so you would stop posting you posts in the main areas. So yes, this forum has other game sub-sections but again they are really only for you. I know you will not get this and most likely just on and on..but again that's a sign of a RL issues that maybe you do need to see a doctor about?

    And last why I'm so hard on you about all this is I view the new posts section of this forum and mostly only see your rants as the new posts ...."

    All in all, be prepare to some degree to just let water slide off a ducks back where possible, even if some people have a long way to go, you can't accomodate for all. Replying only feeds into ... assuming you already know what I am going to say MS9 :tongue:

    Such is the cycle of life, awareness, experience, eventually placing judgement on the experience (not to early though ...) to assimulate, learn, grow and evolve.

    Internet/online interaction has always been a great playground for this as long as we keep grounded/in-touch/balanced with real world interactions;

    We do after all use what we experience here in RL to progress too :thumbup:

    More to say, but this almost thesis long post needs to end somewhere ... :wise:
    And you will get why I wrote the line before this one. :whistle:


    PS. I accidently posted this reply in a PM to someone when it was intended for here. Never the less that person it was posted in conversation to may start to understand some things (or may not) ...

    PS2: Those points you listed MS9 are great, thanks.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  15. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    To Viper ... first my dear friend, you're going to get nailed for quoting something that was sent to you in a private message ... last I knew (at any forum), this was not allowed.

    Second, I really think you should organize your thoughts (whatever topic or series of topics you choose) and write a book, or resurrect/create a new writing site where you can write to your heart's content where anyone who is interested in what you have to say (PE/EU or otherwise) will be able to share in your efforts.

    This is something that I've been involved with for a while, and I find it more satisfying than making attempts to contribute lengthy posts in hopes that my offerings will have enough value to make a difference, or at a minimum be thought-provoking and inspire more critical thinking. Some people appreciate it and say so, and some are less receptive.

    However, that's the nature of a social community no matter what medium is inhabited. As mentioned in earlier posts, everyone has opinions based on their subjective experiences, and there won't always be a meeting of the minds in that respect, so ... we can share what we feel might be of value, and leave it at that.

    With regard to cognitive dissonance, I make an effort not to go clinical on certain presented behaviors, but in this case, it absolutely fit. However, the value is not offered as a personal attack on anyone in particular ... instead, it's a means to define something I have observed over a period of time.

    On-Topic ... for me, I would have to agree with something that Tass wrote in an earlier post in this thread, that (paraphrasing) MindArk should have waited until Taming/Stable Estates were fully functional before presenting it to the community.

    In reading this thread, as well as threads at other forums, there is still not a lot of information regarding this investment, nor what the full intended functionality will be, and players have lots of questions that are not being answered. Therefore, as usual, the community speculates, which in turn generates some rather interesting discussions, and definitely inspires some off-topic exchanges.

    While there is value in off-topic exchanges that indirectly relate to the topic at hand, it's something that for as long as I've been posting at forums is somewhat unavoidable because it's more often than not a natural course of how a thread evolves ... and before anyone starts pointing fingers, it's rare that anyone doesn't fall into this type of evolution of a thread at times.

    It's certainly going to be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

    To Wistrel ... I think you were perhaps referring to this thread regarding the social psychological perspective of Entropia Universe.
  16. Quoted "Parts of PMs" on several occassions in the past on EP without any names or dates attached. I see no issue with providing an example through demonstration while removing all parts of who it was from. It is being used as an example of demonstrating what sort of challenges I am constantly presented and how I choose to respond.

    The book part is something I have always wanted to do, however there are limits that sometimes I must acceptt now in terms of time and energy to do so, amongst other things. There are more important things in what I am involved with in life that need my attention before a book/site or whatnot is considered.

    The site suggested, well I am a member of several major sites not EU or gaming related and one with EU content on it which is one of the larger worldwide known gaming sites that covers games single, coop and mmorpg as a moderator and have been for some years now, though not as Viper. or any EU associated avatar name :sneaky:

    Aye the attempts and energy spent here is very little to be honest. I am mostly active on EU based forums whilst doing what I must with other online activities. Partly why my gameplay time is also limited at the moment too.


    Aye agree, also on the point of going clinical also opens the discussion up to debate on that, even to the point where some will start to debate on semantics and such topics as pigeon-holing, emperical-standpoint (POV) and/or ... the list goes on *smiles*

    I do get the point though and *smoke bomb* other things I must attend to :biggrin:

    Back on topic,
    Stables .... carry on folks ;)
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  17. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    Oh, then perhaps if names aren't mentioned it's acceptable ... if so, then didn't realize that.

    With regard to everything else you wrote ... understood. :thumbsup:
  18. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    So, after a lot of VERY lengthy posts that have not to much to do with the stables being sold, lets get it back on topic again, thanks to MindArk in this case. They have released a press release about the stables (see attached) and it seems the numbers in this thread were correct (more so then the actual numbers in the press release).

    And if you feel the need to discuss stuff like having your own website or book, psychology or the forum rules, please do the first 3 in PM's or maybe in the 'off topic' section of the forum and the second in a separate thread in the 'about Entropia Planets' section of the forum.
    In other words, please keep the thread in line with the Opening Post, in this case the stable estates.

    Attached Files:

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  19. Not even going to respond in terms of "open discussion on a forum as a forum participant providing/sharing thoughts, feelings and POVs on Entropia Unvierse", though your request is noted Razer.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  20. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    Would be nice if you acted like you understood my request as well.

    Again, you are welcome to give your thought and ideas, but as you posted in your own posts and so did MS9 there is a HUGE part of unrelated crap in a post and then you type "OnTopic" and post a small bit related to the stables. To me it is common sense and general forum etiquette that you at least try to stay on topic and if you are planning to write a huge wall of text about something completely different you do that elsewhere, so that people interested in reading about the sale of the stables (in this case, but there are multiple examples in other threads where you (in mostly all cases it is you who start to go off topic)) don't have to go trough all the crap about your real life problems, ideas of making a book or the psychological aspects of EU and its players.

    We have tried to tell you this a number of times and every time you tell us you took notice of the request (like you did again above) and keep going at it the same as you did before.

    I know there are no rules about any of this (which you have told me on numerous occasions), but again it is common sense and forum etiquette. And either you are so hardheaded that you do not see that you are ruining the forum experience for other people and the forum in general or you really like to see your name on all the new post lists on the forum and basically write anything to achieve that.

    I would suggest that you restart your own website (like MS9 suggested as well) and write you thought there, or start a blog here if that is not an option. You are welcome to write whatever you like (within the rules of the forum, there are not many, but they are there) and people that do not wanna ready your thought on just about anything don't have to read it and they are not forced to in the forums.

    So, again I wanna ask you to keep stuff on topic (not only you but also MS9 in this thread)
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