Discussion about Planet Partners playing...

Discussion in 'General Entropia Universe Discussion' started by mastermesh, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. http://entropiatrash.wordpress.com/2013/11/23/more-revelations-about-planet-partners-playing/

    Well, since the nice little forum nazi mods at PCF struck again perhaps we can continue the discussion here? Any "known" planet partners with avatars or employees of Mindark that are reading this care to weigh in?
  2. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    From what I know most if not all the 'known' PP people have avatars which they play with incognito.
    But those are also monitored and can not withdraw anything as far as I know.

    as long at the not being able to withdraw thing is true I think it is a good thing that they play like us, to experience what we do.
  3. Tass

    Tass Administrator

    Without reading any of the releveant posts I can say:

    MA, PP of affiliate companies employee playing regular personal avatars is plain wrong and there is not one good reason for it.

    If it is about experiencing the real thing then there should be a pool of MindArk owned avatars that employees can use for this purpose - monitored and limited in regards to potential abuse.

    It doesn't matter whether playing private avatars follows best intentions and is done with an exemplary sense of responsibility.

    What does matter is whether it helps the game or whether it doesn't help the game. And among several reasons against it (conflict of interest for example...) the mere public discussion probably scares away potential players of this real-money game with a huge knowledge and "luck" factor that is also played by the people creating the knowledge and the "luck"...

    And to be really constructive again: Dear MindArk, herewith I apply for the job of a business and product ethics consultant. I'm happy to work for free for half a year.
  4. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    There is an "Official Avatar Guidelines" document that PP employees get that explains the rules of each of the 4 titled avatar types, and yes ... a PP employee can have an "Incognito" (secret) avatar, and MindArk marks all Entropia Universe Employee Accounts with a specific code in the database. There are definite rules that apply that you cannot do, and the avatar is watched, but ... there is a lot that you CAN do in order to enjoy the game like a regular player does ... even join a society, but you cannot reveal who you are.

    However, the above does not apply to "regular accounts" that PPs play ... that is not one of the avatar accounts listed in the official guidelines, so it is perfectly understandable why there is discussion about it.
    • Informative Informative x 3
  5. The problem I suspect comes in with those that are not "official" avatars...
    Excerpt from an email that I received from Rafael Espinosa de los Monteros Iglesias, CEO of Pyxel Arts:
    The 'planet' Rafael's company will run was not even in game at the time of that email... The fact that he mentions other planets sort of shows you how any PP employee, etc. can sort of have an impact on any of the competitor planet's economy, especially when you start thinking about phrases like "embezzlement" that Kim mentioned in the above link...
  6. They should play i agree with that and they should have game mod (gm) rights to ban or change anything on the fly like other games - APB Reloaded.

    I don't like PCF myself thats why i use EP, but nothing wrong with nazi (Removed) .
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  7. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    I meant to mention as well, that when you create an "Official Avatar" (even if you create an additional Incognito avatar), it is stated in the "Official Avatar Guidelines" that your "regular avatar" becomes frozen and non-playable until termination as an official avatar employee of either MA or a PP company. Only at that time are you allowed to "unfreeze" your regular avatar to continue playing again, which is what happened to me when I was an Official member of Cyrene's PP Writing Team. Only after I resigned was I able to get MS9 back again to play.
  8. Does the 'frozen' avatar stay on it's own account with different login/password than the 'official'? Wondering if the 'frozen' account has to keep being logged in to, at least on the website, every so often so it doesn't become one of those accounts that is ended with MA TTing everything on it if it's not logged in to after x days...? If you don't have to log in to the frozen and can access it later after the termination or whatever, seems like it might be a bending of eula/tos, etc. when it's thawed if so many days passed without it being 'active'?
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Tass

    Tass Administrator

    If this is some sort of provocation or joke it is a really bad one and imo going too far.

    If it is not a joke you might want to consider not using EP either because at EP we share and follow values absolutely opposing those of a totalitarian regime even more inhuman as one can imagine.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. I went a bit too far with my words im sorry, if a admin wants to remove please do, i would say im just a little eccentric with the way i think and do things my world views are a little strange.
    I'm going to take a break from using EP untill i can pull myself together and focus a bit more.
  11. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    lol! Good to see that I am not the only one who call special persons "Nazi".

    Regarding PP avatars: When Monria was launched, lil sis met Ozi (David from Arkadia Studios) in my apartment. He got a star upon his head and is name was something like "David, CEO Arkadia something", wearing kinda "official clothes. At the other hand I met NEVERDIE several times as a normal avatar, no sign, no special clothes, no special name. I got a screenshot from a NEVERDIE global as well. Seems no restrictions to him.
  12. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    MindArk handles the freezing of the account, and the person creating the "Official Avatar(s)" does not have access to it, but nothing changes - all the skills (everything, including what's on the account) stays intact. I was an official with Cyrene for one year, and MS9 remained in her cryogenic state the entire time, until I resigned and asked for the official avatars to be frozen and MS9 awakened ... was hoping for a Prince with a sweet kiss, but got a Wizard 6 months later ... even better. :tongueout:

    MA reinstated the gold star above the head after I had resigned, so I didn't have that, and it's larger than the last one. However, we have to have specific names ... mine was "Cyrene Official MindStar9 ... and the avatar was very restricted ... we couldn't play as a regular avatar could, and neither could we heal anyone as other planet officials did ... these were rules Ed had in place, and we followed them implicitly ... he didn't want us doing anything that would give the appearance of having an advantage, or being unfair.

    Neverdie's avatar is a "regular avatar" (aka - private account) ... he doesn't have an "official avatar" ... and it's never been confirmed that his regular avatar was altered in any way. He also plays his avatar as a regular avatar as well, but that's been known from the beginning. Ozi and Missa got rid of all of their things and gave up their regular avatars when Dave began developing Arkadia, and he took on an official avatar, which he has used ever since (2-1/2 yrs now).

    The only other thing I'll say, is that the "Official Avatar Guidelines" document that we were given was very clear with regard to what each of the 4 avatar types could do and not do. While we could play Incognito (secret) avatars as regular avatars, with a strict rule that we could not reveal ourselves, there is quite the list of what we could not do, and withdrawing is definitely one of them, along with very strict trading rules, and a limit value of the avatar. Anything gained from globals, etc. had to be put right back into the game, However, official avatars can withdraw only the amount that they themselves have deposited to their PED card, nothing further, and the assets of the avatar at termination do not belong to the person, but to MindArk.

    I think that's all I should say at this point, but there is quite a bit more outlined in the Avatar Guidelines for sure, which may now (to a point) have changed, because I have learned that the Monria staff won't need to use official avatars. Perhaps that's because their agreement is different and MA is doing the actual development, while the Monria Team gives their input regarding design, so they quite possibly have far less privilege to development information than full-on PPs have with their own development teams.

    Personally, I feel there are disadvantages for some PPs, while there are clearly greater advantages for others, and that's as far as I can go without opening the virtual vault. There are those within our community who touch on sensitive subjects that others try to silence, but I respect EP for allowing there to be constructive discussions about them, because so many are knocking on the right doors.

    It's good that there's a place to have a voice. :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. As I see it the problem with most of these avatars is - if you can't withdraw, you aren't really playing a RCE.

    If Kim just grabbed a TT gun, shot some snables and TT-ed his loot thereafter, it would have no discernible effect on wider economy; however, you can't really hunt eviscerators with an Opalo. What happens next is that if he can't withdraw his PEDs, he might well be inclined to care less about how he spends them (e.g. "four days until next allowance, and I still have s***load left") - so buying, for example, an already overpriced gun and pushing its price even higher is a possibility, as is dumping loot on auction in a way that crashes its markup. Of course, there are rich people who are careless with their PEDs with or without this scenario - but it's not like EU needs more market-screwers.

    There is however also a more optimistic scenario - imagine some rare-ish weapon or item being underpriced because its stats on Entropedia are wrong (this happens); Kim, knowing better, buys it and drives the price closer to a stats-based value (markets are information processing mechanisms after all, and in this scenario he's feeding better information in).

    In any case, anything he does has some effect on economy. He might screw the market, and he might improve the market, and we don't know what happens more often.
  14. MindStar9

    MindStar9 Floating in Space

    In reply to the above post, I can tell you that all EU employee accounts must abide by the rules of the EULA and ToU, along with fully understanding that the accounts are not personal accounts, and cannot be used for making money, nor withdrawing funds other than what I said about what they directly deposit to their PED card themselves.

    Also, as mentioned before, employees don't have any right to ownership or the value accumulated on the account while employed. They also cannot use any type of internal information, or anything they have learned in the way of how to do things, including any company secrets, in order to increase the value of an account. And that means specifically, that you can't acquire certain virtual items that have an expectation to increase in value due to any type of planned development. Employees also, cannot in any way whatsoever, affect the economy of EU

    There are further defined restrictions, especially for the "Incognito" accounts when it comes to private trade and the auction, specifically when it comes to making money, or affecting the virtual economy.

    Meaning ... employees cannot trade with other end users to obtain unique or rare virtual items, nor can they obtain skill chips or transfer them to any other end users, and absolutely are forbidden to affect market prices in any way whatsoever.

    Except for what I mentioned above, the incognito accounts can "interact" with others in the normal use of EU items when it comes to trade, and can engage in other activities such as teaming during hunting, or mining, or chats, but again, are forbidden to reveal their true identities. They can even become a member of a society if they choose.

    The guidelines are on another computer that I haven't been using for quite some time since getting the new one, and I only transferred files that I needed. The above, and what I have shared thus far, is what I remember from my time as an official with Cyrene.

    As much as I have been quite vocal about some developers, and especially MindArk, they do have precautions and guidelines in place to deter advantaged or unfair activities, and I'm glad that Ed held us all accountable for following them implicitly. However, that does not mean that everything is 100% perfect, and I can only respond to that with regard to Ed's team since I was officially a part of it.

    I think this is the part where I say that anything else beyond what I have shared is not up for discussion, and I'm sure there is an understanding as to why. I just wanted there to be a level of knowledge that MA puts parameters in place, and employee accounts are coded in the database and followed, but as "they" say, there are always exceptions to any rules, and I can clearly and honestly state that I am not one of them. Some people have a conscience, some people don't.

    At least it is stated that the rules apply to all EU employees, whether they're MA, PP, or otherwise associated in some official capacity. Meaning ... temporary accounts for media, role-playing, etc.

    I love our universe and the community, I just don't like how it is delivered by some at times.
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