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CryEngine 5.5 released

Discussion in 'General Entropia Universe Discussion' started by McCormick, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. No I didn't ignore it since you were right.

    I have no idea other than remembering something about the rumor starting around 2009 or so which I'm guessing was due to a financial report where I'm guessing someone saw that MA paid them twice for the license and something else. It wasn't cheap if I remember.

    But you are right again, what was I thinking. MA could code anything in-house without any issues. :)
  2. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    I found this in the 2007 annual report:

    http://cdn.entropiaplanets.com/w/images/d/d3/Annual_report_2007.pdf - Page 26

    2008 Annual report:

    I checked a number of other 2007 and 2008 reports (primarily intermediate financial results), but did not find any reference to any custom work being done. The 2009 financial report also has no reference to CryEngine or CryTek. It does have a section detailing that due to falling participation, following implementation of CE2, less revenue was achieved in that year.

    Now our financial documentation archive might not be complete, but to the best of my knowledge if any financial reports were published on the MA Website, we grabbed it for archiving reasons. I haven't seen any hint towards any customization in the ones I went through (which doesn't mean there was never such a thing; i just haven't found any).
  3. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Explorer

    I remember at the time there was definitely Some issue with implementation and MA had to call in a crytek engineer. Don't remember what the issue was or what customisation was involved if any. I just recall engineer specialist part.
  4. I'm not sure at all how this works but the game itself still has a Crytek copyright on the game? This meaning nothing if they put in on all games which have the engine?

    It being well over 10 years ago my memory is kind of well, but I do remember something 'big' going on. If I'm right MA was even waiting on CryTek for something which put the game release off a bit...but yes yes yes yes..I know. :)
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  5. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    Regarding MA and CE2 yes the engine was heavily modded. I have friend who worked on CE2 change to CE3 and he's commented that he'd be interested to know what they did to fix it up as it really was only designed to work on "levelled" games and in particular FPS stuff. He's made one or two other telling comments that might hint at why our avatars might not work so well as those in standard CE games.

    But indeed CE2 to 3 was mainly about making it work on consoles. It was somewhat inefficient back in CE2 days so the work was largely about optimising it so it wasn't so hardware resource heavy. But one shouldn't forget that DX9 is somewhat legacy now and the world has moved on. So for this reason, and the engine efficiencies of later versions, it would be worth MA looking at porting their modifications - especially if they want to make history by being the first MMO to support VR (OK not counting SL).

    It isn't worth them bothering with VR though. It would be SO much work to come up with a properly usable product.
  6. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    I've often joked that my friend should get in touch and offer to sort them out. There are probably not too many people around who know as much about cryengine as he does. I think he's not convinced they could make it worth his while (plus I'm not sure how many of them actually "liked" cryengine that much - put it this way, none of the ones I met ever had anything particularly great to say about it)
  7. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    I remember this with PhysX... they patched it 3 times and still got the rubber banding so had to wait for a bug fix from physx or sommat.
  8. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Most companies allow you yo pay them to remove the copyright notice. That's usually not cheap, though (but probably cheaper than having them build custom stuff with exclusive use).

    The Swedish standard of excellence? But yeah, it's not typically an engine used for MMOs. Then again, the ma goblins that did the engine selection back in the days wouldn't know the first thing about that, as they are more interested in marketability, than technicalities.

    It's not a bad engine, really, but out of the main engines out there, it seems to be losing the battle. When I was still at Unity, that was the first engine to go subscription. Unreal followed a year later, with a major price drop. CryEngine followed suit almost immediately, undercutting Unreal. To me at the time it seemed like a desperate move, and not something very well thought-through.

    CryTek at some point laid off a lot of people, and I can't help but shake the feeling the company might not be around that much longer (that means jack shit, as I've felt the exact same way about MA for 15 years, and they refuse to die for some reason).

    Out of the three mentioned engines, price shouldn't really make a big difference when it comes to choosing. Unity offers a free version for anyone earning <100k (or 200k, I can't remember, and can't be arsed to look it up right now). Once you pass that mark, you'll need to upgrade to a higher tier (35 USD). Once you reach the next revenue milestone, you'll have to go pro (75 USD/month).

    Unity has some key advantages Unity offers is the integration of its services. Automated builds, integrated analytics, and monetization by means of a few lines of code make it incredibly easy to pick if you're half serious about releasing a commercial project. It also has an immense community, is currently pretty much the de-facto engine for VR and AR, offers the Asset Store (no blockchain needed), and offers the advantage of being able to use C# (which has a lower entry-level barrier than C++).

    Unreal has a free version, too, I think. Their subscription costs 19 USD/month, +5% of everything you make over a certain amount in revenue (including merch). Again, my knowledge is probably outdated. Unreal used to be extremely ahead of Unity when it came to graphics, but I strongly feel that gap has been more than covered by Unity. Unreal offers Blueprint, though, which basically is the ability to create a game without writing code. Think of a visual interface of creating a game. I saw a demo of it several years ago, and while that sort of masked that there's still a ton of work to do, it worked quite well. (Unity has an Asset on the store available that pretty much offers the same thing, though, and might have released something similar in the meantime).

    What I gathered from CryEngine pretty much is the same as what you described. It looks neat, but is difficult to work with, and a ton of people who start with it end up abandoning it prematurely.

    10 years after the switch, I cannot help but feel MA bet on the wrong horse, engine-wise, and while the armour still looks neat, the graphics nowadays feel outdated. They can probably only polish so much, using CE2 no longer is a marketing gimmick, and unless they manage to figure out a way to upgrade to a newer version of CE, they might have to face facts and will have to port everything to another engine. Let's hope this time it won't mean they disable all systems for years and let people who invested a ton of money in those systems rot as they did last time.
  9. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    I know you are in a position to comment a lot of knowledge on the engines (working at unity and all) indeed, thanks to unity it's all become very democratised, a move that kinda broke crytek causing them to chop off a leg or two (or three) in order to survive. They were the uber engine of awesomeness then suddenly the competition changed it's pricing model, started a trend and made it easier to make games if you were a bedroom coder. Whooops...

    I'm not sure it is fair to say MA were only looking at marketability. At the time, CE2 was "the shit" (meaning the best) and also had the potential to make Entropia look lovely, and indeed bits of entropia now do... even if they are still far from using the full capabilities of the engine.

    As usual the issue isn't the engine as such, more MA's ability to exploit it properly. Also, although the engine is old I don't think it is irrelevant even today. The biggest concern is that they are not keeping the code up to date which I feel, for an MMO company should be a thing worth doing. Although moving things over to CE5 would be a lot of work, I'd imagine a CryString is still a CryString no matter what engine version you are using. It's probably a more optimised CryString though ;) What I'm getting at is that keeping their engine up to date wouldn't be as much work as switching to Unity or Unreal.

  10. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    I'm not sure I agree that CE ever was "the shit" amongst the engines. If it had been, surely there'd be a crapload more games made on it? CE1 had 2 games run on it (2 windows, and some ports/spinoffs of 1 of those for other platforms). CE2 had 6. If it was "the shit", I'd expect there to be more.


    Compare that with Unreal:


    Graphics-wise, I think engines are just jumping ahead of one another on a cyclical basis, showing new stuff in very finely tuned demoes that are not representative for how stuff runs for an actual game. Typically, a lot of tricks are performed to handle certain weaknesses in the engine, while highlighting stronger points. (The same thing happens with benchmark tests for databases. Microsoft and Oracle pretty much play tag running operations on specialised hardware that ensures maximum throughput of transactions for the very very specific build of the database engine they use for the test. In real life, you'd not have that hardware, nor the build, nor would you be able to generate that many transactions (real life transactions are drastically different from the tailor-crafted transactions used for these tests).

    With regards to maintaining code, it completely depends on what the engine makers did or changed in their code. You're right in that a string will be a string, and an int will be an int. However, the way to reflect lights or generate shadows might have been completely rewritten, which could mean the way to have your code call it could also have been completely made redundant. Sometimes it remains backwards compatible, but typically newer versions of the engine simply would call for a whole new way of handling things.

    If MA really wants to make some changes, why not focus on something like the MOB AI? I cannot help but shake the feeling that hasn't changed much in the 15+ years I played the game. Trapping is no longer possible due to the mob getting stuck, and granted, a mob won't barge off to another player in the area, as they used to 15 years ago, but still. I don't think anything else really changed.

    In the meantime, there's tons of games where MOBs interact with other mobs. It'd be awesome seeing some mobs attempt to flee rather than attack (Exarosaurs always struck me as a mob that would attempt to run, rather than fight), mobs perhaps show a herd-like behaviour (imagine engaging an Armax young, which also draws the mother towards you), and have mobs lose interest if they chase you too far (most MMOs employ the use of "leashes" for that).

    Heck, the society functionality could offer so many cool extras. Like allow for official alliances to exist in-game, and rivalry, too, where for instance any soc where the members have a reputation below a certain score would qualify as rogues/pirates, and thus be engaged when they head into a town. How about bounty-systems based on that?

    Why the fuck is the maximum team size still limited? With the additions of big ass bosses like Husks and Sand kings, why on earth is it still only possible to have 16 people in a team, while those kind of MOBs would take dozens if not hundreds of players to take down?
  11. San


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