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Choosing sides?

Discussion in 'Planet Cyrene' started by GeorgeSkywalker, Dec 16, 2010.

  1. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Explorer

    In the latest Entropia Times Ed said:
    I know Ed and some of the Cyrene team are ex WoW players.

    Now WoW has sides you can choose from when you start. I've not played WoW but I'm hoping someone who has played that game or indeed similar games where you can start with different factions can enlighten us how that works? More specifically I want to know:


    • Can you change factions at any time?
    • Maybe you only get to choose once and what you choose your stuck with forever much like when we start male/female?
    • How does this work in wow?
    • What should you look out for when you pick sides at the start?

    From what Ed said I'm not too sure when Ed said factions that we get to pick from those factions or maybe we just side with humans i.e. have no choice but we get to interact differently with the different factions??

    What are your thoughts on this?
     
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  2. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    I have not played WoW, but I did play a few offline games (like Oblivion) where you need to choose race and profession and you can not change that during the game.
    My guess is that some factions have different properties and maybe even exclusive rights to use some weapons or other items. And as said if you choose a faction you can probably not do some of the missions, so that would bring a pretty exciting new element to the game. Lets wait and see.
     
  3. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Explorer

    let's figure it out first so we know what we're doing when we start :)

    Interesting you mention race and profession in oblivion affects properties and ability to use particular items/weapons. What I worry about is what if we choose one faction and later on find we want to use a weapon used by a different faction then it would be too late to change...
    When we start we'd have 1/5 chance of choosing the right faction...

    it's like starting on calypso and blindly choosing a number 1 or 2 and later find 1 = blp weapons and 2 = laser weapons. What if you find u chose blp but would rather use laser?
     
  4. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    If I remember correctly in Oblivion you can use all weapons with every race, but you will need a certain amount of skills to use the weapons and some races just have more of one skill than other races. So eventually you should be able to use all weapons, but with some races you could use them sooner.
     
  5. yes I guess some missions will be locked when you chose one side. I offended some NPC mission broker on NI and it killed me for it. However after a while he was reset and I could take the quest again...
    IMHO this is NOT the way to go! Let the players make decisions and then stick to the concept... create something that has at least some immersion... not like these playgrounds out there atm...
     
  6. I think it's been clear that there wont ever be 'races' in EU, at least until MA changes its mind about that, but the basic flaw that i see in the factions is abundantly obvious.

    Yes, you can choose sides, yes your actions will and should have consequences.

    But, and it's a big but, in WOW, lineage and all other games, you can make a new avi to explore different aspects of the game, different factions, skills etc. In EU you're stuck with one avatar, that's also cost a fair amount of ped to develop.

    I love the idea, but if it's not carefully implemented, i fear it will backfire.
     
  7. Dab

    Dab

    The main problem I can see with having factions in an RCE environment (and only one character), would be the inability to change if you make a mistake and decide you don't like the way you chose.

    2 ways to go about it: You can change factions or you cannot.

    I've seen it done in different ways, keeping in mind that all these games allow more than one character and you don't have money invested in them, only time.

    EQ2 has 2 factions (good guys vs. bad guys) and the ability to switch sides through a long chain of quests which are sometimes pretty difficult. Opposing faction NPC's would attack you, but the factions were mostly meaningless if you weren't on a PVP server. You could also have alts in different factions. On PVP servers it was all out warfare and you couldn't even chat with the other side (of course it was easily circumvented by having alts in the other faction or by use of outside of the game comm channels).

    I recently tried Fallen Earth, which I thought at first had a great faction system. The 6 factions all had restrictions on what you could learn and overlapping areas of special abilities (mindforce) which only they could use. Later I found out that you could change factions (by incredibly boring grinding on 'faction' mobs), and that you could eventually use any weapons and abilities you wanted to. This defeated the whole point of having factions which kind of killed the game for me.

    In Anaracy Online you could switch factions (3 factions- Good Guys, Bad Guys and Neutrals), but it was very difficult and progressively more so the higher level you were, but again you could just reroll if you didn't like your choice.

    Neocron 2 - lots of factions and changing sides was through missions. This is the one I liked the best and since I'm not a min/maxer, I didn't care about the balancing.

    Eve, no factions but you have status with the government on whether you are outlaw or law abiding.


    There are no NPC's in EU which would attack you, and rightly so.

    So, I don't see factions working very well in EU unless:

    1. You can change factions and they are social/RP in nature only. Maybe having a different look and feel for clothing + access to different fluff locations maybe? Maybe a different storyline for missions but with the same rewards.

    2. You cannot change factions and some incredible genius (it's MA doing the balancing remember) can balance the items and armors, special abilities etc amongst the factions perfectly and keep them that way when new stuff is added.

    3. You can change faction and the factions are balanced as well as possible. This always leads to all the min/maxers being in one faction, and a huge amount of bitching about even the slightest imbalance, so very undesirable from a community point of view IMO.



    Since you can't start over and there is no way they can balance several factions perfectly, I think option 1. is the only thing they can do. Which is ok.

    If you can't change factions at all no matter what they mean to gameplay, some people will just quit when they find they don't like what the chose, so they will have to allow you to change factions. This would defeat the whole purpose of having factions unless it is mostly an RP/Storyline thing.

    To me factions which are not just fluff are just like classes. Unless they are perfectly balanced, the bitching will commence.

    Nothing wrong with fluff though if it is well maintained.
     
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  8. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Explorer

    Thanks for the replies, especially dab very informative...


    I was also thinking on Cyrene they could have an "acclimitization" phase - where you start of neutral/human and after a certain period through your choices u make are locked into one faction eventually. (This fits in with what Ed said above but dunno difficult to be 100% certain).

    Anyway with EU say once your locked into a faction it could be possible to change factions later but at a cost hence this would stop people jumping around factions too much. This would keep it relatively stable. Interesting point with this scenario would be if you left and returned to planet what would happen then? most likely no change ?? dunno
     
  9. yea i've always wanted to have to pick a side. thought it would always add something. it's why star wars games are so much fun cause you gotta choose the light side or dark side or rebelion or the empire....
     
  10. They may have factions as they are in Lord of the Rings online, where even though you pick Human, Elf, Dwarf, or Hobbit you still can get your standing up with the other 3, if you do their quests and help them out. Basically like a point score system where you get points with each faction when you complete one of their missions, and at certain point levels you get cool benefits. You can then choose to just focus on ones missions and unlock all their benefits or just do them arbitrarily and see what cool unlocks you get.
     
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  11. Kris - Cyrene

    Kris - Cyrene El Gato Blanco

    Hey guys, this is one my favorite threads, I love theory crafting (it's a just as fun as on developmental end!) Good job George!
    It's very interesting for me to hear your ideas about the factions and how they might work on Cyrene. Also I want to comment that WoW is not the only game we play.

    Subscribed!
     
  12. A quick reply to the OP´s question regarding WoW. Yes i did play it a long time ago. =)


    • Can you change factions at any time?

      No, you choose Ally or Horde which is kind of like Good vs Evil. They have different races on each side that are similar to eachother.
      Example. Horde priest = Shaman, Ally side = Priest (if i remember correctly, it´s been a long while since i played) =)
    • Maybe you only get to choose once and what you choose your stuck with forever much like when we start male/female?

      You can only have 1 "faction" on the same server so you can´t choose good and evil on the same server because of advantages if you could play both factions.

    • How does this work in wow?
      See above

    • What should you look out for when you pick sides at the start?
      In WoW the Horde side = More evil like characters. Allies are more on the good side.
     
  13. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    have been thinking about the possibilities of 2 or more factions and there are lots of things I could think of.

    1. There could be a specific area that is 'owned' by a faction
    2. There will be PVP in that area, but you can only shoot people from the other faction
    3. Specific materials can be found on that land area that can not be found on others
    4. So other factions need to go in that LA and 'steel' the materials

    So you would get a deed (like an apartment deed) once you join a faction and that gives you free access to their LA and won't activate the PVP once you enter it. This would bring a new level of PVP to the game and supports team play to protect the valuables in the ground. Maybe even a war once a year to secure the LA's to your faction so that they change hands every year
     
  14. GeorgeSkywalker

    GeorgeSkywalker Explorer

    The other thing to consider is the fact EU will have a new avatar system. This most likely will mean new possibilities that we never had before i.e. our avatar could be different species, colours etc

    It occurs to me on a particular planet we may even be able to switch genders. Say you had a special machine that could change your gender (much like a hairstyle chair:D) the machine could also be use to Switch to different species hence the new avatar system could alllow us to be "camouflaged" into new factions?

    That would be an interesting take on things...
     
  15. i am all for factions.. sounds like these people know how to make a game environment not just a grind fest
     
  16. RAZER

    RAZER Custom title ... uh ...

    and Kris said they are not only playing WoW, so what else might they play, EVE maybe, where they had an all out war a few weeks ago
     
  17. kalanen

    kalanen roadkill

    Can't wait to screw all parties with lies and deception! :wave:

    I've waited new possibilities to enhance the role playing aspect for a long time. :D
     
  18. x.player

    x.player Seeker

    If I may ... My two cents ...
    But first, let me introduce myself .
    I am a totally new player to the world and universe of Entropia. Found Entropia almost two years ago. Things so happened that I got to have my avatar here now - just made it, fresh & brand new . Do have an insight on Entropia, since I've been reading on it. It has and it interests me, I might add.

    Probably you might be asking yourself what's got this to do with the topic. Well, I am looking for a planet to settle - and of course, taking a peek, sort of speaking .

    Anyways, factions ...
    ' 1. You can change factions and they are social/RP in nature only. Maybe having a different look and feel for clothing + access to different fluff locations maybe? Maybe a different storyline for missions but with the same rewards. '
    Dab's 1st option .
    I would totally go with this . Could spice up things a bit .
    ' Since you can't start over and there is no way they can balance several factions perfectly, I think option 1. is the only thing they can do. Which is ok. '
    And Dab's conclusion . ( Dab, hope you are OK with an 'alien' like me quoting you )

    And Marie Woodell's idea is not bad at all .
    Well, as I see it, Entropia is a world wide online virtual community having the purpose of exploration, communication, social interaction, learning, experimenting, collaboration, so forth and so on .

    But, if there is such an urge for unrest, conflicts of the core, wars, factions - infiltration even ( liked the idea with having a possibility to 'disguise' yourself as of another race, sneaking in another 'camp' etc ...) then, you could have that with planets .

    A planet for the ' Light ' side , a planet for the ' Dark ' side and one for those who would like to spike both for their own benefit and profit from this eternal conflict . Well, exotic neutral planets, dangerous scarcely inhabited planets ( by us avatar owners ) , planets run by pirates of the Entropian Universe ... etc .

    When saying a planet for Light, a planet for Dark, it might stretch to a system of planets . Thus wars, interests areas, resources - economy - trades ( when and if possible ), certain types of governments .
    People would pick their sides, fight for a cause, have common or personal interests, as well as keep Entropia's basic concept intact .

    Anyways, this idea could develop and grow, give each side the chance to own conquered areas, as well as governments and parties of those planets ( which could be organised in federations ) running what they got to own through combined effort ( social, economic, militaristic ). And if you wish for ' factions ' within the same planet, well - then you would have groups of interest, political / social parties and organisations of all sorts, different races or not, on a same planet, having to 'live' & work together just cause they stand for a cause, but each striving on their own way ... as it often happens .

    If I may, Kalanen, what planet would you pick ?
     
  19. Yep, it's a big problem since 'factions' will likely work very much like 'classes' in other mmos... and lock you in, which is the completely opposite of what MA seems to be after... so I suspect there will be a lot of back and forth between the PPs that want this to happen and MA who is taking a different stance. Hopefully they can overcome these obstacles, but based on the past, I would not count on it at all, so thanks for creating this thread. Maybe one just like it should be added to the forums for each planet, and over at ef so that those that are creating this system for us will actually be reading and paying attention to the issues that they are creating instead of just ignoring it, doing it their own way, and then leaving it as is for us to deal with when we log in, like so many other various things have been done in the past.
     
  20. x.player

    x.player Seeker

    Well, mastermesh, as soon as I have posted my reply, I have contacted Entropia Universe staff about this topic..
    Though, it would not hurt to get it out there on the EU forums, for each planet even .
    Avatar owners of each planet could make up their minds and vote on such isues, which could be taken into account .

    I in particular I am watching this topic. And please, if any of you out there know of other topics or discusions such as this one, do feel free to contact me, either via these here forums or via my E-mail at zackappa@hotmail.com

    Have fun everyone !
     

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