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Discussion in 'Other games and gaming' started by Fan_boy99, Dec 14, 2018.

  1. Fan_boy99

    Fan_boy99 Idiot


    An idea that I have had for some time (years actually ;).

    Every1 here (even Mark ;) will admit 1 thing. We DO love EU and the 'idea' of EU. Some/most just don't like ways it been run since Marco left.

    So?. Game idea is STILL good. Why don't we just make our own RCE game similar to EU???

    Yes I know Atlas Diaries (or whatever it was called) was cancelled. Has been (and are COUGH other 2d/webbrowser 1 man developer RCE games right now) but what I mean is a new company a full team of full time pros.

    Is many good people on this forum. Coding is the EASY part its the 'creative content' (ie artwork/models THAT cost the most ;). 1 person here designs real life statues!!! (wow).

    MANY people read this forum (maybe more than the 'other forum') but they are perhaps too afraid to chat (have to protect your investments)

    New game should be open and fair to all. No fake auctions on big sales. For example :) .

    Its just an idea but I agree with Spawn about people complaining/whining. But where I change roads is = lets just make a new game and new company entirely

    As Chairman of the board or CEO (both?) (erm I would be investing so I am allowed to elect?) Mark McCormack ;). He has a big mouth and done a lot of good work here.

    I would estimate we would need 10-15 full time staff and a 'startup' capital of around $5 million USD.

    Just an idea. Sick of Mindark and their <redacted>? Is no laws against making a different PROPER RCE game ;)
  2. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Coding can be done, art can be done or acquired, for a rce the important peice is the economists. You will need 1+ VERY competent economists with an understanding of not just the global and local economies around the world, but also a firm grasp of virtual economies and how all three will need to tie together in symbiotic relationships.

    We have all dreamed the dream, unfortunately I do not have the time or money to invest, I even ran out of the time I had been able to help with the forum here which I strongly believe in as a great project.
  3. There have been alternatives to Entropia .
    One was from Russia and it wasnt bad.
    The other one pio was rather good. I played it for a while, even got some globals .
    But then the creators decided to scrap all my belongings. So they lost me as a participant
  4. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    So I think EU did it wrong when they started. They went beta at some point, then alpha. And then gold, without a reset. The high-end weapons and gear dropped plenty early on, and then all but stopped dropping, meaning there's a great imbalance between the testers, and those who followed afterwards.

    Wiping the entire economy in a game that is in the test phase can be a good thing. It means you admit the initial balancing you had going was wrong, you made adjustments, and reset the playing field to be fair to everyone. Also, playing in alpha/beta should by all means be clear to mean that once the game goes gold, you will not have the items you had prior to gold. Maybe you can keep some skills, but if even those get taken, you will still have experience and knowledge of the game that newcomers do not have.

    I don't know the reasoning behind the reset you describe, but it might actually have been completely intentional, and just poorly communicated.
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  5. San


    The old Project Entropia we loved didn't make money for its creators and therefore was unsustainable. This muddies the waters for all otherwise justified criticism. I'm with those who bemoan the loss more often than not, but if it doesn't add up, nothing will hold forever. Now people like to call them greedy, but every business is, even if it just wants to survive. Have an economic model worked out which can do better, and people may start getting interested (including MindArk themselves).
  6. NotAdmin

    NotAdmin Administrator

    Well, the new model obviously isn't working for them either. Their blatant disregard of any interests other than their own cripples the planet partners, meaning they are either struggling to get by, or simply massively downscaled (or are just gone completely). No new partners have shown up to replace them (after all, if none of the existing partners are able to make a profit, why on earth would someone new partner up with MindArk?).

    So they tried mobile. And failed. They tried the old virtual property sale. And failed. They tried a VR meetings app, funded by taxpayers. And failed. They tried an ICO. And failed.
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  7. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    I would say most of us just have enough trouble running our lives, keeping our homes clean, doing the washing, finding time for the occasional computer game playing, shopping, eating, cooking, exercising, sleeping, going to work, contributing to this forum (tech or content) and working on our own projects.

    A game is just... too much. I was talking to my (ex-crytek) friend the other day who kept saying it was easy to make a game now... yeh I think he forgets that he is part of a large company with many programmers and artists etc. He's never actually produced something entirely on his own I don't think - even when he went freelance, he worked for/with others on games produced by at least a handful of people.... and that was full time.

    Look at how long Pion has been going, look at how Noggin completely failed to ever turn SPONG into a real thing, look at how Afterworld eventually folded, look at the one man band running Cyrene these days.

    It's a lovely idea but alas an idea is all it can remain as.

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  8. I have been thinking about this for years.
    It even got to a prototyping phase earlier this year where I tested some of my ideas.
    (see screenshots: Planet Initium)
    I've also investigated several options for the basic MMO engine, character system and world generation and have a fairly good idea of the technical approach that I would apply.

    Even though it is a big dream to take on a project like this, I have to agree with Wistrel: it's very tough!
    There are so many aspects to take into consideration and many have tried and failed before.

    Maybe 10 years ago I could have dived into such an adventure, but right now my life does not allow me to (and 10 years ago I didn't have the knowledge I have now..)
    I own a software development company, so I have a number of developers to my disposal, but the financial risk and required investment is just too great.

    Planet Initium will most likely never be more than a prototype.. :-)

    2018-12-18 08_14_53-Planet Initium. 2018-12-18 08_15_39-Planet Initium. 2018-12-18 08_16_19-Planet Initium.
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  9. Well IT sure looks good
  10. Yes, very nice BruuD, I would try it.

    Any mobs developed?
  11. Jamira

    Jamira Samurai Girl

    A few notes.
    I was member of Allan Morgan's team for "Planet Postmoderna". And that was meant as planet partner within Entropia Universe only. I've learned a lot during my time there.

    1. Leadership
    It is not enough to call some enthusiastic folks to the arms. One person, a company or a small group (I call it "the leader") should draw the lines. The leader must care for every aspect of such an undertaking. At the other hand the leader must be responsible for everything that happens. This is an important point. Especially if we talk about RCE.

    2. Juridical Responsibility
    Even if everybody has fun developing an RCE-game, the day will come when someone got a problem with it. Latest when the game leaves alpha and becomes a serious product. The liability is at the leader.

    3. Costs
    Even if everybody of the team works for free (for several years!), there will be costs. At least the server costs or advertising costs. Who will pay these costs? The game must generate revenue. Wich means: the participants won't.

    4. Game Mechanics: RCE
    A very special theme. Question is: will the leader find people with knowledge of game design and RCE who work for free? The ingame RCE must generate the revenue to pay the costs.

    5. Game Mechanics: Story/Gameplay/Goals
    There must be reasons for play the game. And to pay for it.

    6. Game Design: Guidlines/Restrictions/Construction Kit
    Such an undertaking requires a general management of everything that appears in the game. Starting with a basic story up to the feeling while "living" in this world. That's the mental part. To be able to communicate a very special mood of life it is necessary to follow an regarding consistent system. Nothing "strange" should appear. This requires a construction kit with rubber-stamped content. The leader must overwatch this kit.

    I could add some other aspects. But this may be enough. A game made by the community is and will be just a nice dream.
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  12. narfi

    narfi Lost

    Very good summary Jamira.

    To stress even more, there can not be a successful project of this type by a community of 'equals'. There must be a strong and dominant leader willing to assert his dominance over the entire project. Almost a dictator.
    Everyone has ideas, many of them good, but a group of people working together like this will not have ideas that all flow together, that has to be controlled by someone with the personality, obsession, and willpower to do so 100000000%
    While this is necessary, it is also necessary for those working on the project to believe in his/her dream 10000000% as well and trust him to take their work on his project to fruition and success.

    This does not mean that many ideas and creative concepts of those under him/her will not be used, it just means he has every last say in what is and is not a part of the project. It is a difficult position, esp with the egos and emotions of humans at play.
  13. Fan_boy99

    Fan_boy99 Idiot

    Thanks. Viewed link. will pass hehhehe. 2 updates in 1 year hehehah

    Also errr THAT game is NOT an RCE look at FAQ.

    It goes back tgo what other asked. WOULD YOU PLAY 'great' (not asking regular family....) EU if it wAS not rce????. ADmit it. you play to profit. Explosvie Projectiles??? buy token from cashier. Gamble (BP 1 I mean). . a proper 20 man (preferably mostly women thanks) RCE game.

    ''I am too busy''

    ''I work too miuch'


    And Im the quote ''idiot'' …...
  14. A few robots with simple AI, but everything still runs client side; networking was never fully implemented.
    The prototyping got to a point where I knew what libraries/templates/approaches I should and should not use, but taking it to the next level would mean starting from scratch with the proper systems and building it into an actual game - which is a bridge too far for me at this point.

    "Next level" would require everything that Jamira mentions (and probably more).
    If you want to build a half decent game, you need more than decent people in your team.
    A team of 10 good people costs at least $750K a year, just in salaries (if they get some equity to go with it).
    It will take maybe a year to get to something that is "alpha worthy" and probably another year to get near a first release.
    Add to that costs for assets, advertisement, web development, servers and probably a shitload of other costs - you're looking at maybe $2 million for the first 2 years... and then you're at the point where you may start to generate some revenue... you're still a loooong way from turning a profit.

    Look at Project Ion. It's a hobby project, done by 2 guys (I think only 1 is doing all the programming).
    They've been at it for years and it's still clearly a hobby project and nowhere near a finished game.
    AfterWorld had a team behind it and look where they ended (and it looked crap from the start).

    But still, it's nice to dream about building your own Entropia.
    I sure do and will continue to do so :)
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  15. Hmm...

    Crowdfund a few $millionz?

    Or launch what you’ve made already as a ‘pre-alpha’ early-bird subscription model that signees can use as a chat room and dream about future amazing developments.

    Then gradually introduce super-amazing ‘pre-alpha’ armour, guns, clothes etc and sell for lots of cash then use subs and sales income to expand and improve.

    Or first create a text version...got to be a lot cheaper. :)
  16. Wistrel

    Wistrel Kick Ass Elf

    haha there is probably some sort of MUD engine available to make something like Entropia in text. Would be quite funny.

    I have to admit I've occasionally thought it would be cool to make a visual novel that utilities Entropia. i.e. something where you use the actual map, and locations etc to move about and do stuff then use screen shots of avatars as the characters in the story.

    If you had a budget for an artist you could use illustrated characters as overlay images to in game screenshots. There is something called RenPy which apparently is good for making this sort of game. Even simpler is something called Twine - but I think that may only do text.
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  17. I don't really understand your post.
    I started Entropia in 2004. Played for free for a year and a half. Made my first deposit in May 2005. And I viewed it as a subscription game from that time on. 35 euro's a month deposit to play. Never withdrew anything. Slowly gaining more ped. When CLDs came out I sold evertthing I owned and was able to buy 30 deeds. After a few weeks I realised the potential and decided to deposit big to get to 100 Deeds.
    I started withdrawing from that moment on.
    So until 2011 I didn't play for profit.
    I played it because I like the game.
    I played Afterworld too, and I Tried Pion.
    But yeah, if I have the chance to fund my next car from this game, I Will surely do IT!
    I didn't see anyone in here call you an idiot.

    I do craft explosives 3, when I am down on ped. I hit 1280 ped a few days ago with the last 100 ped I had. Bought some fresh Deeds to grow

    while the idea to start a RCE game is very cool, I wouldn't know where to start, because I am not a coder. I think Bruud and Jamira's words are wisdom here. It's fkn hard.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  18. San


    OP said he will be the investor.

    I did, in response to a specific utterance unrelated to this topic or any other except the one mentioned. He chose to include it into his presentation ever since.

    On topic, we like to criticize MA for this and for that, but I think nobody fully understands what it actually is they created and why it is successful. Therefore I think "MA sucks" as raison d'être for investing in creating a competitor does not have a very realistic outlook.

    I could imagine an alternative which builds on a suitable cryptocurrency from the start (ideally an established one like LTC or ETH) could be interesting, seeing how MA's attempt to bring it into the existing game was not met with high acceptance. Those invested in it are afraid of disruption. But maybe stuff Project Ion (open source) with a cryptocurrency client and see if there is any interest in it going further, upon which one could invest in creating content?

    Also don't forget to factor in that there will be legal trouble ahead if successful, because thou shalt not do anything that allows people to exchange money without government supervision, and double trouble if it has an element of luck.

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